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Noticed when I load 85gr of R15 there is about 1/3 airspace left in the case. One Kynoch foam plug filler seems to fill this space perfectly touching the bullet itself. Is this OK to use this foam? Lately foam filler seems to have bad voodoo connected with it !!!! |
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Foam fillers have bad juju when they are not used correctly or their worthiness is reported on by those who have no idea what they are talking about. I suggest you ask Kynoch how to properly use the plugs...let us know what the say. |
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I am using Kynochs foam filler with very good results--same caliber and same powder you described..not the same grains--but each gun is different..have also used other pillow stuffer and it works well also.. Ripp |
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I dont get it. The company that makes the powder does not recomend it. Why would you risk your prized rifle,your eyes,your life. I just dont get it. |
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To my knowledge there is nothing inherently dangerous with using the foam --however, being the good old USA--of course a powder company won't suggest it...it is an law suite waiting to happen..IMHO.. \if something does go ary.. Ripp |
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Quote: The Powder Company does not recommend fillers because they have no control over how the fillers are used. Powder companies do recommend the use of fillers. Have you ever looked at shotgun loading data. The big warning they have is do not substitute components. Thats the problem you can't substitute components. Ask Kynoch how to use theire foam plugs. |
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The RL 15 is not recomended for 470. Filler or not. |
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Just my opinion but if your this unsure about powders and filler and loading for a big bore double rifle. -Hand loading for big bores should be left to very experienced folks only. |
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k80 I must respectively disagree. RL 15, with a filler, is one of the best loads for any of the big bore doubles. |
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Allient publish 2 loads for the 470 NE. One RL19 one RL22 Both achieve the standard regulation velocity. Why would one wish to use a powder that they do not recommend, that also requires a filler medium and add more variables to the equation. I can see nothing to be gained, except a very small change in recoil due to the lesser mass of ejxector and slightly lower (pennies cost) and potentially everything to be lost. I am sure that if they thought RL15 and half a pillow stuffed on top was a good idea they would have said so. Regards |
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what do they suggest for RL 19 and 22 with the 500 gr bullet? I cant seem to find anything on their loads iv been using rl 15 with Kynoch wad to no problems |
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This is the link http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/newCalibers/470_Nitro_Express.htm Regards |
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I've recently purchased a 360BPE. I haven't had a chance to Cerrosafe the chambers yet but I was wondering. Has anyone used Pufflon filler? I found this adv site in Handloader Magazine and was wondering if the stuff was any good. Here is the website: www.pufflon.com/ I have found several loads for this gun but I was trying to think ahead about the filler if I need it. Frank |
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I must respectively disagree. RL 15, with a filler, is one of the best loads for any of the big bore doubles. Then why does the manufacturer not recommend it |
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It gets mixed reviews. I have not tried it but if you use the search page there are a number of threads/posts that that discuss it. Some like it but some say it slugs badly... |
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I doubt Alliant would recommend a filler in any event, as they do not make them and have no control over how they would be used. Going from 85 grs. of RL-15 to 115 grs. of RL -19 or -22 would result in about a 15% increase in recoil, which, to me, is not trivial. |
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I used 2 foam plugs with 89 gr. of RL15 in my 470. Dave |
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Do not use Pufflon in a bottle necked case. It slugs up as it is extruded out of the larger powder chamber and through the smaller neck. This could raise pressures, but it for sure stretches necks and over works the brass. |
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I suppose my desire to load my own rounds is to get the bullet (and velocity) I want. I never had much interest in loading/reloading just for the sake of it. As a new reloader for the big NE cases, I have used one Kynoch foam plug for the 470 NE and RL-15. And I see that I'd better pull some bullets on the 450 #2 cases and insert 2 plugs instead of one, to get rid of the air space under the bullet. I hope you guys know what the hell you are talking about. All of a sudden there is this UNWRITTEN rule that there should be no air space. Maybe due to my lack of research and effort on my part, but where is the published information on how to load/reload the big NE cartridges? If you guys really know what the story is, then I am now safe! ![]() |
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Ken Owen worked up a load for my W/R double in .470---he has a very good reputation ---his load was RL-15 along with 5 to 6 grains for dacron...said he has been using that load for years.. Ripp |
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CapeGunner The thing to watch for when using Pufflon filler is if you don’t compress it sufichantley it can shift and co mingle with your charge. I would be more inclined to use a foam or Dacron filler just be absolutely sure you fill the case completely with some compression. K80 Ken, the reason RL 15, with a filler, is one of the best loads for any of the big bore doubles is it most closely duplicates the burning rate and pressure curve of Cordite. This helps with getting many of these guns to regulate. This also puts the pressure peak with in the same area of the barrels. When you use a slow burning powder it moves the peak pressure curve further down the barrels where they are thinner. This combined with older not so great steel can be dangerous and expensive. Just a general statement it is not the use of fillers that is dangerous but the improper use that is. Bill |
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Is it true about the large variations in Federal ammo due to the amount of airspace in the case ?? I can't believe Federal, who I think have a good reputation, would supply inconsistent ammo. I thought they used a big enough primer to get around that ? best, Mike |
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Mike, I believe they are relying on the hotter primer and it doesn’t seam to be enough. Kynoch has been using a foam filler wad and doesn’t have this problem. Bill |
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Bill: That is the most thought out reason I have seen. I still think if a manufacturer does not recommend something there is a reason. They do a tremendous amount of testing to offer safe ammunition and reloading products. |
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Quote: True, but just as true is that it is not swimming in croc-infested Lake Kafakumba that is the problem, but rather, not swimming fast enough that is the problem... ![]() I have shot many loads using a variety of fillers. Those who use them, and especially those who experiement with new loads as I have frequently done, must understand the risks involved and not cry about the results of a try gone bad if it does. For myself, for some reason, I HATE weighing tufts of Dacron, and that is yet another reason I gave up on that type of filler. I'd rather look for a filler-less load than weigh pinches of the white fluff... |
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I have a leg in each camp here. Firstly, I wouldn't dream of using fillers in full nitro loads, but then I don't use RE-powders ever. ADI (..or Hodgdon 'Extreme' powders) are bulky enough not to require wads or dacron. There is usually a small air-space, but load densities are probably in the order of 95%. No cause for concern there! (Note exception: .450 #2 and .475 #2 probably benefit from filler, even with ADI/Hodgdon 'Extreme' powders) Secondly, most 'nitro-for-black' loads DO need filler or wads, and I strongly prefer saddle-felt over foam or dacron/kapok, as others here must know by now. I have concerns over the longevity of polyurethane foam in the monsoon tropics where I live, as it breaks down to a crumbly or gooey mess in a couple of years when used as packing, or in boot-soles, luggage padding, etc. Wool felt, on the other hand, has been retrieved intact from pharoahs' tombs! I have also found foam to be 'grippy' on the internal case walls, such that it can be compressed within the loaded cartridge by the powder charge if transported bullet-down, and then remain so, causing air-space between the powder-column and the compressed wad. This is just my long-winded way of agreeing whole-heartedly with the posts of Bill and others: Quote: |
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Ken, I do agree with you. “ I still thinkif a manufacturer does not recommend something there is a reason.” That reason in this case is “product liability” When a manufacturer ships loaded ammo he I pretty sure it won’t be altered before it is used and will function as he intended. With the use of components the manufacturer can’t be sure you will do it exactly as the recipe calls out. I believe in the case stated in this post and on other forums the individual did not use the foam fillers correctly. Better to error on the side of caution. Bill |
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if you dont want to use the wads fine but dont use RL15.use imr4831 or what ever you want bot when that powder is lying in the case i hope you get uiform burn whaen you touch it odd or risk being eaten trampled gores or be excreated from the rectum of some predatore.i have never had a problem with filler.if you doubt them pay the 400 a box for ammo.no biggy right.then you will sleep better. |
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Quote: I think you might find it beneficial to go back and read all my post on this thread . Bill |
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I cut my own foam fillers and have for the last 6 years with no problems whatsoever. wadeb |