Matabele,

"So excessive bearing on the draw will throw the barrels towards the breech face as mentioned and therefore disrupt the joint and the gun is then "off the face", holding a gun up to the light that is bearing too hard on the draw shows a wedge shaped chink of light as the barrel rounds are now hitting the breech face first. That is what I was alluding to."

Noted !!!!..............this would cause a gap ("off the face") until it is "blacked down" and the bearing/load is spread thereby putting the gun "back on face".........Makes sense to me.

"With regards to double rifles and detachable draws I personally feel that pulling the action out of the hook is excessive, and the amount it is pulled out of the hook has perhaps been exaggerated (for purposes of explanation of the principle) in Vic's description. I have Vic's book and read that section a number of times and it has always intrigued me. In my opinion when fitting draws it is more a matter of a distribution of pressures and not so much a physical movement of the action out of the hook. To my mind it makes no sense to not use the 10 odd mm's of hardened pin in conjunction with a well fitted draw, this would seem to be much less prone to wear over time. And if a draw is used with excessive bearing when it does wear the gun will very rapidly come off the face to quite a degree, as the pin is now not able to provide support. Also consider that pulling the action out of the hook as the barrels engage the draw will lead to a very pronounced two stage feel on opening and closing the gun."

Once again I agree that Vic has exaggerated this - relieving the forces on the hingepin - for illustration purposes. If the pin is not fitted to the hook then, upon firing, the hook would get a "run up" on the pin and cause battering...........and beat itself to death.

"History has shown the old vintage guns holding up remarkably well using this same system, so I do not feel a detachable draw with too much bearing offers any advantages in terms of strength and longevity of the gun, but certainly aids in tightening a gun back up when a rejoint is needed."

I have often wondered whether some guns don't hold up well due to lack of "spring" when jointed. Another concern is when fitting a new hingepin, thereby moving the barrels back to the breech face, is that they have to push the rear hook/lug out of bearing with the draw - thereby solving one issue and causing another. A removable draw would allow this condition to be addressed.

Transvaal,

".....I jointed the barrels with the draw moving the front lump hook back from the hinge pin by .002". However, after giving consideration, I decided that it was foolish not to have equal distribution of forces during the ignition of the cartridge against the hinge pin and the draw."

This makes the same sense to me. Refer my comments regard the hook getting a "run up" and battering the pin. I interpret Mr Venter's comments to mean that the fit of hook and pin was "eased" which may well mean just "taking smoke".

Vick Venters please chip in if you're watching this conversation.

Gents you do great work. Thank you for including us in this and answering my questions.