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...there was steel, and it was good (and heavy). This is the start of the next double rifle project. It will be in .275 Nitro Express (in the UK, 7x57R everywhere else). The plan is bar-in-wood, inboard mounted sidelocks with either hinged or windowed false lockplates (I've not yet decided) and sidelever opening, all on a 28 gauge-sized frame. I don't know if I can embed video on this forum, so here's a link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVvkBWbv5P4&feature=youtu.be |
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Rising bite? Please post often on this build. Can't get enough of this stuff! |
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Oh boy, sometimes I think I live for this stuff..awesome! Did you machine that receiver up to that point, or was that supplied? |
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Nice machining, make sure you keep those photos coming. This should be a very interesting build, a double rifle from scratch is the most interesting of all, especially a rising bite. Sounds like you have got some great ideas, bar in wood with a rising bite and Bertuzzi type locks and sideplates, doesn't get much better than that. Looks like the knuckle was machined with a milling machine, are you going to use a knuckle scraper to finish the profile ? Waidmannsheil. |
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Quote: The knuckle was done on the mill (as was everything else). I'll smoke it to the forend iron using files when the time comes. I don't have the luxury of a CNC or EDM, so everything is done the old-fashioned way. |
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Quote: I machined the frame from the block that's sitting behind it. |
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Magic stuff, you are very talented, makes mortals like me very jealous, please keep posting & showing us more, people may not post about it, but many many are watching with baited (wrong baited ?) breath ! Wish you were closer you perhaps could have fitted my 8 bore barrels to my action ! |
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Thanks Dewey, filing the knuckle seems like a lot of hard work when you could use a knuckle scraper which makes the job a lot easier. I don't have CNC machines either and do most of my machining by hand. Occasionally though I do need to get something wire-cut and I find the cost to get someone to do it for you is pretty good these days. With so much machining being done in China, a lot of engineering businesses have got wire-cutters which are not booked out all week and they are happy to take on small jobs at a reasonable cost. If you make any jigs yourself this helps with the cost and the programming is not expensive as the actual machining is mostly basic straight lines and simple curves. At least the modern variable angle helix cutters make machining by hand a lot more enjoyable than it used to be without as much chatter, if any. Great work, very impressive. Waidmannsheil. |
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simply amazing what people get up to in their back yard sheds....... will you be using a shoe lump arrangement for the barrels? subscribing to this one. |
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looking forward to more. |
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Oh my , I'm watching this closely. Please keep the pictures coming. |
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Quote: I've been a proffessional gunmaker for 20 years, my "backyard shed" is a fully equipped (albeit manual) shop. I will be using a combination shoe/through lump arrangement (in 4140). The front surface of the rear lump will bear upon a replaceable hardened insert dovetailed into the frame. |
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Wow...You do amazing work, sir! |
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Looks great so far Dewey! |
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Beautiful work Dewey; What angle have you decided to have the "circle" of the rear lump and the opposite "draw" portion of the action where you will place the removable hardened insert? In your excellent photo it appears that the angle could be about 1.5 to 2 degrees to the action flats. Kindest regards; Steve |
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Quote: Thanks. It's 6 degrees from vertical. |
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Dewey, Very nice work! I will be watching this thread to see how you progress with this wonderful gun. Bob |
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Good day to you Dewey Thank you for sharing this process with us. Most of the members who frequent this thread are double rifle builders/experts. As a complete novice but an avid learner will you be so kind as to add some detail around the machining process? Small things you think I as a novice needs to know and lookout for? It really is a process I want to engage in the near future. I have access to a milling machine, surface grinder and lathe..if possible I really would appreciate it. With this request I really need to thank members whom already assist me with valuable knowledge they gained in building processes. Regards Gert |
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Since this isn't a paying job (yet), progress has been slow but here are a few more photos. |
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Hope you do not mind the questions. Your project is amazing. How are you going to attach the barrels to your modified shoe lump. Brazing. |
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Not at all. Thanks. The barrels will be attached by silver brazing. The ribs will be soft soldered. |
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Superb work, very impressive. What type of locks are you going to use. Waidmannsheil. |
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No need to answer that question, I looked back through the earlier posts and noticed that the information has already been supplied. Waidmannsheil. |
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This looks amazing! Do you mind if I ask how you achieve that nicely squared bolt raceway...broaching? What finished weight are you hoping for? Again, super cool! |
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Wow ! That is absolutely great work, just awesome, thank you for posting, very cool ! |
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Quote: The horizontal bolt raceway was made with a keyseat cutter. |
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Following with great interest. Never will have the wherewithal to have a double but a light 7x57R would be right up there on the most desirable list. |
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Dewey, Any more progress to share ?? This is a great looking project and it appears to be happening quickly. Keep up the great work and don't forget to keep us updated. |
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This is the rough machined bridle. The inboard mounted sidelock. The outside "lockplate" is simply a cover and obviously will be pinless. I'm going to incorporate a spring-loaded trapdoor in the outer lockplates to access the inner workings. The cocking lever is also the mainspring. As the barrels open, the lever/spring rotates the tumbler to full cock where the sear will hold it. As the barrels are closed, the cam at the front will cramp the spring. |
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Very nice, great work. Waidmannsheil. |
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Here's the finished right-side lock. Almost finished, I still need to make a couple of bridle screws. |
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Dewey, Great progress. Great project. Fascinating. Can you show a picture of the interceptor sear arrangement please ? Keep us in the loop. There'll be a lot of people watching intently. |
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Fantastic project and beautiful work! I read on your blog you use O1 a lot for springs...is there a particular reason for this as opposed to other steels such as 1090 or 1075? Do you mind if I ask what your heat treat and temper routine is for O1 springs? O1 is easier to find in my neck of the woods and would be useful for making the odd spring. |
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You mentioned earlier in this thread that you have been a Professional Gunmaker for 20 years. It shows!! Beautiful work, very impressive, superb!! I really do like those sidelocks with false sideplates. Very neat indeed. Please keep us up to date with this DR build. |
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I do use O1 for springs, the carbon content is roughly the same as for 1095 but the addition of chromium, vanadium and nickel makes for a (theoretically) more shock-resistant part. O1 is easier to find in thick sections than is 1075 or 1095 (at least around here). O1 can be forged but it must be done at or above 1500 degrees Farenheit and annealed after forging. Heat treating (harden and temper) is similar to 1095. I usually use o1 for springs that are a single leaf design or that have large lugs/projections, like the combination mainspring/cocking lever here which has a pivot lug that engages a pocket in the hinge pin. |
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Thanks for the info Dewey, much appreciated. I'm looking forward to seeing how this project progresses! |
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Very nicely made spring. Waidmannsheil. |
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I decided that the bridles should be pierced, in the interest of saving weight (not really). |
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That is awesome work. It is one of my dream cartridges to have a double built in. |
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This may be a silly question (again) with the system you are suing it doesn't look like there will be much remaining wood left after in letting the head stock.I only ask this because I just split the stock on a double that I am building.Cant wait to see it completed. |
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Nice! |
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That pierced bridle looks fantastic. Great work. Waidmannsheil. |
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Quote: Thanks. The locks do not have interceptors, I'm thinking of incorporating a grip-safety. |
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Dewey, I had expected one and when I saw the projection on the back of the hammer/tumbler I thought it might have been incorporated with that. However, when you pierced the bridle, you could see that there wasn't an interceptor. Your work looks nice and "crisp" but you've added "artiness" with your lines......well beyond just function. Lovely work. |
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Simply beautiful work. |
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Dewey, Anything further to show us ?? |
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After some thought, I decided that since the locks will be readily accessible (and therefore visible), that they should be more visually appealing. To that end, I redesigned the sear spring (it's now a single-leaf with a bridge supporting it), beveled the edges of the bridle and bridge and cut an ornamental pattern into the lockplates (which had to be remade). |
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Looks superb, very similar to a Swiss watch as a they also bevel their plates and bridges. The sear spring is very similar to detent springs fitted to watches as well. Are you going to polish the bevels ? Great engineering skill and craftsmanship. Super. Waidmannsheil. |
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Gorgeous !!! Don't know that I'd have opted for the treatment you gave the inside of the sidelock plate...but I can appreciate the workmanship that goes into it. The detailing of your work is impressive. Is it your design that the first hammer notch is to act as a safety notch........should the hammer jump it's full cock notch ??? Beautiful work. Please keep posting your progress. |
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This build is blowing my mind. Amazing work, hats off to you! |
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Very nice work. Your professionalism is showing. |
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Out of interest what steels are you using for the lock internals, tumbler, scear, bridle etc? |
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Sear, tumbler and screws are O1, sear spring is 1095 and the lockplate, bridle and bridge are 1020. |
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Thanks for the info Dewey. Great to see this come together |
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really enjoying following this! Fantastic work. |
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Sir: I'm really disappointed, I noticed in the last Photo that the screw slots inside the lock are different widths, shame!! but they are all lined in the same orientation, all most. Just kidding, excellent work, I'm jealous of you abilities. Bob |
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This, is exactly what I came here to see, please proceed ! |
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That is stunning! Can't wait to see it finished! |
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Very nice work. Can't wait to see the finished rifle. |
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Beautiful work and descriptive photos. Thanks. |
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Some more progress. The pattern stock is coming along. I decided against the sidelever and opted for no levers at all. I've yet to decide on single or double triggers. |
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Here's a photo of the triggerplate, early on. |
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Great Lord! That thing is going to be stunning. A bar-in-wood no less! Thank you for sharing. Curl |
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Great work, looking superb. are you going to make it an underlever type. Waidmannsheil. |
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Awesome. |
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All of my posts say, Edited by CptCurl at the bottom. Why is that? What was changed? |
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Nothing was changed. The wonderful photos were archived to the NitroExpress server. Again, thanks for posting. Curl |
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Oh, OK. I didn't see anything different, that's what made me curious. You're quite welcome. To Waidmannsheil, there is no opening lever. The forward portion of the triggerguard slides rearward to open the rifle. Take a closer look at the two photos. |
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Such wonderful work. |
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Dewey, I see it now, very clever. I wondered why the forward portion of the trigger guard had that shape, now I know. There are many unique features on this gun which I like a lot, makes it interesting. Looking forward to seeing it finished, great work. Waidmannsheil. |
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Gee eh? Would you happen to have any photos of your workholding layout? I have a mill but workholding seems to be an art unto itself. |
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Quote: I could probably fill my entire hard drive with photos of different set-ups. Every set-up is different depending on the piece. |
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What a wonderful project. I'm just amazed at the level of skill on display here. Please keep the photos coming. |
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It's easy to see why double rifles cost so much. |
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I made a new bolt slide that's a bit more aesthetically and functionally pleasing and forged and filed up the extended top tang. The stock is the pattern/assembly fixture. |
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Love the opening "trigger" style lever. Though I cannot tell if it is in fact a lever or a sliding actuator. What powers the underbolt? A V or coil spring? As for the whole concept, it is turning me into a bar in the wood fan. Amazing work! |
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Quote: It slides. All of the springs are of either the V or leaf type, except for the firing pin retraction springs (coils). The bolt spring is a V, situated vertically behind the bolt. |
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The left and right firing pin bushings, firing pins, springs and vent screws. The blank for the forend iron with a portion of the bar of 1020 from which it was machined. With the barrel breeches brazed, the barrels blacked down and the bolts fit, and the assembly proof-fired, I rewarded myself with some fun work. That work is chiseling the fences. |
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Phenomenal work there Dewey, respect! Can't wait to see if you are a master in wood as well, if you can shape metal like that then the wood will be a piece of cake. Regards, Metal. |
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This is fascinating. Thanks so much for letting us watch. Curl |
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Amazing work, you must be getting excited to fire this! One thing I've wondered is how you continue the knuckle radius up to the edge of the table? I can imagine setting the action up sideways and cutting most of the knuckle on a rotary table...but how do you continue that arc? |
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Quote: Thanks. The knuckle was filed by hand, no rotary table. |
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Could you set it up horizontal in the dividing head/rotary table using a stub through the hinge pin hole, supported by a tailstock ??? Being that it should (?) be on a radius with the hinge pin centre. |
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Quote: I don't understand your question, the action knuckle is done. It is most assuredly round and concentric with the hinge pin and no complex machine setup was required, indeed no machine was used. The only tools used were 00, 2, 4 and 6 cut, flat files. |
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Quote:Quote: Looks perfect to me! Thanks for the explanation. |
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Dewey, I'm not questioning your methods or the quality of your work. I'm merely saying that would an alternate/possible method to cut the radius of the knuckle be to make a mandrell (extended hinge pin if you will) attach it to your rotary table (set up vertically) with a tailstock to support it and machine it that way ??? I'm just suggesting this method for we mere mortals who may not be as good with a file, dividers and a square as you. No matter how achieve your results please keep us updated as I find this project amazing. |
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Quote: No worries, I didn't think you were questioning my work, I simply didn't get your question. The rotary table idea would be perfectly workable. Believe me, no one is more of a mere mortal than myself. To prove it, I'll tell you how such a perfect radius can be achieved with files alone. I turned two guides whose internal diameter perfectly fit the hinge pin hole and whose outer diameter matched the finished radius of the knuckle, they were then hardened and when plugged into each side of the frame, provided a positive guide to file down to. The fit is perfectly light-tight to the forend iron and concentric to the hinge. |
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Dewey, That sounds perfectly feasible. Hardened plugs that your file won't cut down past. Fixed to the hinge pin reference point and providing the required radius. A marvel in simplicity. Saves on all kind of jigs I've seen. When we get too dependant on machinery we forget what magic can be done with files, buttons, squares, templates etc. It's the way it had to be done back before milling machines, lathes, shapers became more common..........let alone the "white man's magic" of cnc. Thank you for explaining this. Keep up the great work. |
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Dewey - I, A mere mortal, am amazed at your work. I have mailed pictures from this thread to friends who are amazing artisans in their own right - they-too are equally amazed at your metal. It borders or exceeds the GREATS of best English workmanship. |
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Dewey, Can you share more progress on this build with us ?? |
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Wow Dewey! I have not checked in on this project since early on. What progress. I could not imagine having to inlet that action into the final stock. I am just trying to figure out how it drops into it. Looks like it pushes straight back into the stock.? |
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Paying work and a design change are getting in the way of my progress. I changed the entire lockwork for a couple of reasons. The first is that having the outer (false) lockplates be removable simply to look at the lockwork seemed like less of a good idea the longer I pondered it. The second is that I wasn't happy with the effort needed to close the self-opening design when the added weight of the barrels was taken with it. It wasn't difficult but it wasn't pleasing either and the spring opening combined with the weight of the barrels made for a rifle that felt like it was going to jump out of the hands when it was opened. The weight of the rifle barrels can be put to much better use in a conventional cock-on-opening design. So, that is what I did but in a way inspired by Westley Richards' hand-detachable boxlock. The locks are removable with no tools after the outer plates are removed. The lock frames are machined with integral sear and tumbler pivots,like the WR, but those pivots are also supported by the inboard lockplate, which also serves to locate the lock frame. Photos and video are below (all of the innards, except the lockwork and cocking mechanism, are removed). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzHMpHTtBTE&feature=youtu.be Brian, the frame "rocks" into the stock, starting at the knuckle. |
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Dewey (if I may) this thread is astonishing and Thankyou for posting. A "hands on" peek at how a double is made is a real treat. Please keep it coming. Thankyou Dirk MMBA |
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Dewey, I just cannot find the words to describe the quality of your work. It is truly amazing, and not just your level of skill in working with steel, but also your ability to design all the pieces to create a very interesting double rifle action. Thank you for taking the time to show these great photos and explain how the build is progressing. |
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Absolutely fantastic work & skill, thank you very much for going to the trouble of showing us mere mortals your work, makes one feel inadequate really ! ! |
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I always felt that the Perazzi removable trigger system would be good on a double rifle. They do coil spring and leaf spring versions. Once again Dewey fantastic work and thanks for posting it. |
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Not too sure about the Perazzi trigger - they sure like to break often. That is why every Perazzi trap shooter has his trigger replacement kit at a trap shoot. Either he or perhaps 2 or 3 others will need it. I was going to say might, but will is quite likely, more appropriate. |
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A Perazzi-type, detachable trigger/lockwork unit has been done on a double by Abbiatico & Salvinelli (FAMARS)in their Avantis model. That it has been done is why I chose not to. |
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Darryl, I wonder if the "often breaking" Perazzi triggers are coils or v springs ??? Saw a beautiful Perazzi (SC3 or SCO ??) once but it had the crack in the elbow of the v spring. It surprises me that any gun designed for the heavy use of a trap gun would be that fragile. Dewey, Other than it already being done do you think the idea has merit ??? A sidelock should be about the easiest to adapt to a triggerplate type action. Instead of the elements of the mechanism being mounted to individual sideplates that are mounted to the frame, they should "easily" adapt to a central mounting on a triggerplate. Being that we revere back action sidelocks for double rifles - leaves more steel in the elbow of the action to inhibit flexing - why wouldn't a back action sidelock type action with the locks mounted on a trigger plate be equally desirable. Perhaps the Max Ern lock (roller on mainspring acting directly on the back of the hammer), in one of the Shooting Sportsman articles, would also be a desirable extension of this idea. I think the ability to quickly interchange locks in the safari camp due to breakage is an overstated "selling point" ............that would be, of course, until I needed to do so. It may just be a case of "better to have it and not need it .......... than need it and not have it". Just kicking this around fellas !!!!! |
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Dewey, very nice work, lovely shapes and curves. Neat little video as well, you can see in it how easy and smooth that gun is to open. Very nice. The Max Ern roller on mainspring was also used in the Dickson trigger plate lock, I think McKay Brown uses the same system. As far as the removable trigger group goes, I think it is a great idea. Having a gun where the difficult to repair parts are easily removed in the field for servicing or inspection and cleaning is very handy in the middle of the bush. One of the many reasons that I drive a LandCruiser, easy to repair in the bush if you need to. Waidmannsheil. |
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Yes - trap guns. |
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Here are some more photos. The sideplate catch and safety mechanisms are yet to be made. The final screws will be made after it is stocked. |
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Incredble work. Thanks for this journey into the making of a DR. Those locks are wonderfully compact and so simplistic in appearance - they are truly marvelous. |
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Lovely work. |
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Splendid! I hope to see this rifle finished. What are your plans? Sell, keep? I am in western Virginia - close enough to visit your shop one day. I would dearly like to do that. I have a good friend who has used your services on double guns and speaks highly (for obvious reasons). Thanks again for sharing this wonderful journey. I can't think of any other place on the internet where something like this can be observed. Curl |
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Really fantastic work, how you manage to find the time in a working day to build a rifle from scratch boggles the mind. Can I ask how you determine the initial convergence angle of your double rifles? |
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Quote: Thanks. As of now, it's not spoken for. The main reason that I made this rifle is so that I could legitimately refer to myself as a "gunmaker" (ha!). I'd tell you where on the internet you could see more but I don't want to be accused of trying to "poach viewers" again. I've got a number of clients from your neck of the woods. You will see it finished, I'm stocking it now. |
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Quote: Thanks, time is the rarest commodity, that's why it's taking as long as it is. Paying work always comes first. .005 of an inch per inch of barrel length usually gets them both in the same ballpark for final regulation at the range. |
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It is stocked. Now I've got a boatload of screws to make and fit. |
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Dewey, I can't see your pictures. The Photobucket message says "Please Update your account to enable 3rd Party Hosting" however I do believe that Photobucket has been pirated/scammed so be careful. Been watching for progress photos on this project. Hope it can be sorted so that we can see them. |
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That's weird, they show up fine on my computer. Are all of the previous photos gone? I don't know what is happening with these photo hosting sites but everything will be on my blog shortly. |
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Well, I found out what is going on with Photobucket. It seems that they want me to upgrade to the $399/year level of membership to restore my photos. That's not going to happen so I guess this thread is dead. I'm glad that Blogger doesn't use third-party photo hosting. Sorry everyone. |
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Quote: They don't expect much then do they??? $400 a year! One can get a domain name and "unlimited" storage account with an ISP with FTP access for $30 to $120 p.a. And no advertising. I think photobucket will die a rather quick death using such extortion tactics. |
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I agree, it looks like they might put themselves out of business. I sent the photos to our own Cpt. Curl. Perhaps he can find a way to post them. Apparently, all of the previous photos are archived, which is why they're still visible. Thanks Cap! |
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Now it's there for all to see. This is an extraordinary project. I can't wait to see the finished rifle. Yes all the other photos are safely archived on the NE.com server. Sometimes people get upset and want to know what the heck I'm doing editing their posts. Well, I'm not editing. I'm archiving the photos. This PhotoBucket fiasco makes a good illustration of the value of doing that. Look at other forums around the 'net. Most photos are gone. I don't get them all, but I get a lot of them. Curl |
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Really glad to see this one resurrected! |
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Dewey, The way you've got your mainspring does this also act as an "easy/assisted opening" function ?? Or could it be made to do that as well as power the tumbler ??? |
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Dewey, I reread your post of 21/3/17 and you did state that it was self opening. Great project. I just need to reread it occasionally. |
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Quote: Curl does a wonderful job making silent efforts to keep our posts and photos archived and there for the future. Over a year takes many hours. I know from when I do it myself. Still impossible to get them all by even a fraction. Lots and lots of threads now quite redundant with missing images. Thanks to Curl. And others who do many jobs, like MikeH with new members. And members like Lancaster who post many many images via their own net server access. |
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Wow. |
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Here are some more photos. Still on the agenda are a safety mechanism and QD mounts for the Leupold VX2 1-4X scope. Edited by CptCurl: Photos above are archived on NE.com server. The original links to larger photos are preserved in the links below. Click on a thumbnail photo for the full size. |
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Doesn't work for me. Waidmannsheil. |
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Nice Dewey! I hope you don't mind, I have these photos and the others in a folder marked DeweyVicknair. |
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Quote: Thanks Daryl, I don't mind at all. |
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Wow.... just, wow. |
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Beautiful progress! Again, thanks for sharing with us. Curl |
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Five Star rating applied to this thread. Should have been done long ago. Curl |
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Yes - I would say so! |
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Magnificent work! Are you going to have it engraved Dewey, and if so any ideas on a theme or design? |
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I'm just going to have my name put on the sideplates, the next owner can have it engraved to their taste. Here are a couple more photos and the final regulation target, shot at 75 yards, I couldn't see the target at 100, I guess my iron sight days are past me. Roscoe, thanks for putting the images up at their standard size. Click image below for full-size image: |
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Dewey, I am like most others on this forum, completely in awe of the craftsmanship you display. I keep looking over and over at the photos, just because I enjoy looking at them. Very well done. DC |
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Thanks DC, and everyone else. It's not quite finished but it's far enough along that it won't keep me up till all hours any more! |
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Like your work DeweyVicknair...the grouping is spectacular! Bloody brilliant to say the least |
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Well done Dewey.Youve done a great job. You must be one of the very few Gunmaker's in the USA that can build a Double Gun |
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Simply Gobsmacked. Im so glad this thread survived the photobucket saga. Thank you so much for sharing. |
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Stunningly beautiful! Vlad |
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Off the scale fantastic, just awesome ! |
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I've made the scope bases. They will accept Talley quick-detachable rings and will be screwed and tinned in place. These can be clicked for full size photos: |
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"Dewey Vicknair - Gunmaker" It's got a ring to it. Great project. Great result. Thanks for including us. looking forward to your next venture. |
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I need an update on this project! With pictures! Please! |
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Yes- MOST well done, Dewey. What a trail you have put down in this build! Absolutely amazing. Thank you. |
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New pictures and an update if this has sold. What’s the asking price? Not a caliber I have a particular use for but it’s sure cool. Edit: you should make some 28g tubes to accompany it! |
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Quote: It is not sold. I have no idea what the price would be but I'm certain that I would never recover the time invested in it at my labor rate. I've made the screws for the forend latch escutcheons, I'll get some photos as soon as I can. Shotgun barrels on a rifle rarely make sense since the stock dimensions and balance are not compatible between a rifle and a gun, but I am making a 28 gauge mate to the rifle. It will be a rising bite, sidelock, bar-in-wood, sidelever with a straight hand stock, splinter forend retained with a wedge and a grip safety. I'll detail that in a separate thread. |
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I finally got some time to make the screws for the forend escutcheons and mount the scope. It's a Leupold VXIII, 1.5-5 power. These can be clicked for full size images: |
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Absolute corker piece of kit that is! Wonderful work there to say the least DV! |
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Fantastic work, that gun looks absolutely superb. Super well done. Waidmannsheil. |
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Dewey, It looks like a gun that needs to be "handled" ........... what I'm saying is that I'd like to heft it, weight it between my hands, mount it and swing it cause it looks lively. |
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Thanks. I'm glad that all you guys enjoyed "trip". Twobobbwana, if you're ever in the states, give me a ring and we'll head to the range. |
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Dewey, That'd be a pleasure. |
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My gold plating solution finally arrived so I made some time to put the finishing touches on the locks. The orange tint to everything is due to the incandescent lighting. |
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Not only is the rifle absolutely outstanding, but your photographic skills are exceptional as well! Best of luck. DC |
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That looks really nice. I would like to see the other side of the locks to get a better understanding of how they are constructed. Thanks for sharing your progress. Curl |
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Any updates on this wonderful build? One of my favorite posts was watching this take shape. |