Dear WBD,
Thank You very much. Thank You for exhaustive information. I have understood at last the situation with Collath and Grundig cartridges. The most important difference - different base diameters.

About 11x65R. I will formulate the next post. Sorry, my english is not so fluent and I need a little more time to prepare post. I have not that cartridge, but I have a gun. Old German drilling.