Thanks everyone for the info and the link 93x64, Cheers ,i just remembered there was an article in the Australian Outdoors Magazine ,back in the good old days when Colin Shadbolt did the shooting Column ,before the ''powers that print ''removed the hunting and guns from the magazine ,about using 303 brass for 410 ,the brass i think had to be annealed then fire formed, and the Rim filed thinner so the action would close on it ,i think the load back then it cost 5 cents per shot .