You know the thing is on some of the other forums if you try to have a civel and logical discussion about it you just get run over. One of my faults is that I do not mind jumping in the mud and wrestling with the pigs. It is just not my first choice. I have had my share of 45-70's and enjoyed them. Most who know just a bit about history and have a fair amount of experience realize that the 45-70 was never the super killer it is cracked up to be. It is a fine old cartridge. It is just not the best choice for every thing that walks the planet.