I have been playing with the .300 or .325 Winchester short mag necked up to .458. Curtis, a guy who helpes in my shop and a friend had me help him put one togther. The barrel is 22" long with a 2.5" brake so the effective length is only 19.5" The rifle is based on a 98 Mauser and weighs in at just over 9 pounds scope and all. The ballistics Curtis is gettiny is 300 grain bullit with 61 grains of IMR 4198 and large rifle primers = 2595 F.P.S. 350 grain bullets with 58 grains of the same powder are going 2380 F.P.S. Not too bad for a carbine! This rifle/ cartridge should work out well in the thick stuff. Now all I have to do is get the time to build my own .450 Short Mag.