We're not really disagreeing on anything. I stated that I don't view the 45-70 jacked up loads to be a staple on any dangerous game. I merely observe that the same bullet weight at similar velocity yields similar performance (leave out buff and ele, etc).

Grizzly velocities, according to the company owner Mike are based on 18.5 inch barrels. He is getting 2200 fps from a 22" barrel with his 405g Kodiak bullet. My 20" gun shows slightly less than this. The PUNCH bullet is virtually indestructable, has a high SD and penetrates through just about anything in tests. I do not use cast bullets - I tried them and too many break in half on big stuff.

If the situation is planned and the application used intelligently both the 45-70 +'s and the 450/400's are nearly parallel in performance on large ungulates and smaller.

For an intentional dangerous game application I too favor my 450/400 3" DR over anything else I have.

I was curious why 45-70's are so quickly dismissed as an adequate round by the majority of members here and elsewhere. It seems it is mostly put down quickly when DG is in mind. OK - no arguement on that.