I have read a lot of controversy surrounding the 45-70 on these posts. On the contrary I have read positive reports of the 450/400's, particularly the 3".

I have and use both. However, when fairly compared:

450/400 3" (Kynoch and others)400grain @ 2150 (30" bbl)

45-70 (Grizzly or Buffalo Bore) 405 grain @ 2100 (18.5"bbl)

The 45-70 FACTORY LOADED "Magnums" offer as much or more than the 450/400's.

If you average a loss of 25 fps per inch of barrel the 450/400 in a DR of 25" is at a velocity of 2025 fps.

While the 450/400 is approx. .411, the 45-70 is .458 so the sectional density is greater, the kinetic engery is more and the Taylor Knockdown # is higher.

Whatever formula or theory you subscribe to the 45-70 yields a higher # than the 450/400's.

I am not saying that EITHER cartridge should be relied on as a primary stopping round for dangerous or large game, just that they are equally capable for careful applications.

I am getting 2090 fps from my 20" barrel 45-70 with Grizzly Cartridge 405g Alaska Bullet Works Kodiak Bullet. Their PUNCH solid is 405g and doing 1990 fps in same gun.

The Westley Richards factory load in my 450/400 3" is 400g Woodleigh at 1995 fps from the 25 1/2 inch barrels.

I have not used solids in the 450/400 3" so I wont compare.

Overall, the new factory 45-70 high performance loads are equal to or slightly more proficient than the 450/400's.

"The 450/400 was Taylors favorite cartridge for buffalo, though he also shot a lot of elephant with it. He wrote that if he had a pair of doubles in 450/400 he would happily use nothing else for the rest of his career" - Gregor Woods, Rifles for Africa.

Taylor nor Woods had access to 45-70 ammo with modern quality bullets and high velocities that are commonly available today.

The performance they required, and found was satisfied by 450/400's is also available in todays 45-70 "mags".

I make these comments without favor to either cartridge - I like 'em both. I have shot hundreds of big game animals - about 1/2 with each and performance has been notably similar.

Any comments?