i see,was also thinking the 450 might have a thicker case wasen't really interested in a correct sharps design. just reading too much i think. noticed the blackpowder guys complaining about anything over 45-70 in smokeless is wasted and the african game guys wishing they made 450 4.500 lol. a as far as pressure is 44,000 psi in a 308 as hard on the action than 44,000 in a .450ne?