86thecat - thanks for that heads-up & reminder. The carbon spoken of is most prevelent in high-intensity cases and forms in front of the chamber. It developes into a hard surface you can't even touch with a carbide scribe (once sectioned a barrel and tried) The carbon ring is why so many .220 Swifts got a bad name, years ago as do the larged cased round today. If a .22 BR can raise a groove choking carbon right a couple thousanths thick in 1,200 rounds, how many rounds does it actually take in a .300 mag?

Match shooters, way back in the 70's and 80's, used JB religiously in full-bore matches to remove not only copper from the 20 shot plus strings in hot weather, but also to remove the carbon.

Some bench rest shooters use a water soluable solvent to help cut the carbon - noted in PS in the 90's (the books I have) that non-water based solvents won't touch it. They were also using Hoppe's #9 Plus along with a whole regime of other solvents. This is not powder fouling per-say - it's different from straight powder fouling as the carbon ring happens in the throat, effectively choking the throat's groove diameter smaller and smaller.

I routinely run 300 rounds through the .17's between cleanings. Of course, I'm only shooting 10.3 gr. to 12.6gr. of powder and the carbon right just doesn't seem to happen.

The bigger the case and more powder you shoot, the hgiher the pressure, the worse the carbon ring. The very large cases are the worse - ie: ultramags may show this to the extreme in the future - IF they are shot as much as they should be.

Edited- Hmmmm - didn't know Wipeout was water based - and I think that's good - for the above reason. As to carb cleaners, those too have been used since the 70's - but with the addition of a water based lube - ?????

As long as the bore is cleaned well, and often - but properly with care & no jointed rods or ssssssnakes - they should be OK.

Any you guys thought cleaning a muzzleloading barrel was difficult or took a long time? - only takes me 5 to 7 min per barrel and it's done - & that involves removing it form the stock- 3 to 4 pins - each time. Hah - the easiest cleaning job there is. Stick with the black - no subs allowed and no supository guns either- well, maybe the off 9.3 or .375 - or .458 HA!