(.224 member)

19/07/04 11:13 PM

Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Fellows,

I am bound for Africa (my second trip) and am wanting your opinions concerning my two rifle battery. I will be mostly hunting plains game. Although there will be some larger animals in the mix - Kudu, Eland, and Oryx. I am considering either my 300 Weatherby or 338 Win. Mag for the light rifle. I will also be hunting Cape Buff and am considering my 458 Lott for the DG rifle. I do have a 375 H & H and have considered just taking it and being done with the two rifle thing. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Trex

(.224 member)

20/07/04 03:00 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Hi Trex,

Hmm, difficult choice, since all of your rifles make nice combinations!

Two thoughts from my side (3 safaris, 4th one in planning, one buff down):

If your second rifle should also back-up the first one in case of a failure or loss, then I would backup the .458 w/ either the .375 (that will do fine on all the plainsgame you mentioned) or the .338 - which has the disadvantage that it is definetly not ideal for buffalo (but might just do, if you PH allows and your careful...)
(Note: Depending on the country you're hunting in, it also might not be legal on good ol' mbongo...)

Also, for back-up purposes maybe you want to check w/ your PH what client-rifle he has available. Chances are that there is a working .375 in the camp anyway.
(Note: it might not be possible for you to bring ammo for this rifle, if you don't have a rifle in the same caliber (e.g. .375) with you on the trip!

So, in a nutshell:
My recommondation would be .458 with either the .375 or the .338WM.

Regarding the .300 Weatherby check w/ your outfitter, since it is very seldom in africa that the add. range of the Weatherby's is needed, since most hunting is done in the bushfield w/ typical distances below 200m. Also - although it can and has been done - I would not recommend any .300 on eland (remember, those beautiful beasts weigh more than a grown-up buffalo bull!)

So, whereabouts are you heading in africa, some details of the planned trip would be interesting!

Enjoy, 500NE

PS: If you get your eland, absolutely insist on eland steaks for braai (barbecue)! I have yet to eat better meat!

(.333 member)

20/07/04 04:14 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I think the first question is, which rifle are you most comfortable shooting. That is the most important point, I think. Start from there!

(.224 member)

20/07/04 04:23 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

500NE,

Thanks for the suggestions. I am heading to South Africa in 2006 (summer). I have hunted in Tanzania up by Arusha and Longido close to the Kenyan border. I saw a great many bufs and lions while hunting there and the land was absolutely beautiful. I was there three months on business and one week hunting. As to my rifles - I am absolutely comfortable with any of the ones I mentioned. I have no problem with the 458 Lott (at least not the first ten rounds). I took an Eland with my 375 last time I was in Africa and it did the trick. You are correct in stating their weight. When I got to the beast I couldn't believe how much he weighed. The steaks were absolutely delicious! I hadn't considered the ammuntion situation - but you are correct in stating that if you don't have a gun for the ammo some countries will not let you take them with you. In all likehood I will probably take the 375 and 458. I like the 375 for range and knock down power on the larger plains game but I really feel comfortable with the Lott on the Buff.

Thanks
Trex

Administrator

(.700 member)

20/07/04 11:36 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Trex

If it was me, I would be taking my .375 M98 and my .450. Both will kill buff but the added ability of the .450 would be nice.

I wouldn't take a .338 and a .375. They are too close.

If I took one rifle, eg because of luggage weight, I would take just the.375 and did so on my last safari.

If I believed long shots were going to be necessary I would take the .300 unless I practiced a lot with the .375. I was handicapped with my .375 on my last trip when hunting bushbuck on irrigated cereal farms and animals were able to be sighted up to 800 metres away. This was unexpected. Some places it is to be expected.

So I guess I am also saying the .375 and the .458 Lott. Live the fantasy of Africa.

Have fun.

(.375 member)

22/07/04 08:02 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I would use the 338 for plainsgame as it is the perfect mix, I like the 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS....the 458 Lott for Buffalo if you enjoy shooting it, otherwise I would take the 375 H&H....

(.224 member)

22/07/04 10:03 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Nitrox,

As you say the 338 and 375 are too close. My only problem is I am not really sure what conditions are going to be concerning range. I will cover this more when the time approaches with my PH. Of the three guns that I mentioned I have shot all three at DG and killed each animal with one or two shots at the most. (Two shots [338 win mag] on an Alaskan Browine but it was my fault and not the bear's). I like your mindset concerning the 338 for range but here is my quandray. If I take the 338 and the Lott or the 357 and something happens to the Buff gun (take your pick Mr. Murphy is alive and well in Africa), then I am stuck with no Buff gun. Make sense? Maybe I am worrying to much - my first hunt to Africa I just went and hunted and was happy as a pig in slop. I didn't obsess over which gun I took I just took the 375 and was happy. Couldn't make some of the plains shots that I wanted but hey I was happy. Anyway, I thank all of you veterans for your sage advice! I have decided one thing the more I look at Buff the more I want to take the Lott. I know that literally thousands have been killed with the H & H but I really don't see it as a charge stopping rifle. I know that it can do the job in skilled hands but I am no Capstick! I like (well like isn't the right word but close) to shoot the Lott. When I was in Alaska two years ago I used a friends and it stopped a Browine cold! That I really like!

Thanks Again!
Cheers
Trex

(.224 member)

22/07/04 10:06 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Ray,

Thanks for the information on the 338! You don't happen to have any recipe off the top of your head for the Lott (a buff load so to speak)? Your wisdom is always appreciated.

Cheers
Trex

(.275 member)

23/07/04 01:57 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

This is an interesting post.

There are three rifle choices and two are making the trip. All the possible combinations were suggested.

I would guess you would be in good shape no matter which of the three you took!

My advice is take the two you can shoot the best under the worst conditions.

RobertD

(.416 member)

23/07/04 04:39 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I suggest 2 rifles, both of them in 9.3 x 62. Then you won't get the ammo mixed up or be carrying the wrong gun at the wrong time.

(.416 member)

24/07/04 12:51 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

In reply to:

Poster: 500grains
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I suggest 2 rifles, both of them in 9.3 x 62. Then you won't get the ammo mixed up or be carrying the wrong gun at the wrong time.

There's allot to be said for this idea. Two identical rifles in a very usable cartridge.

(.300 member)

25/07/04 10:27 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I know this is not quite in your parameters but I wold go for a pair of H&H's. The good old .300 and the classic .375.

(.224 member)

25/07/04 01:06 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

You fellows have given me excellent advice. Thanks for your thoughts. Sageosity (if I can use this word) is never lacking on this board. I have decided to take the 338 and 458 Lott. After doing some speaking with my PH he has confirmed that an extra 375 backup gun is in camp and if anything happens to the 458 he would not hesitate to give me a loner.

Cheers
Trex

Administrator

(.700 member)

25/07/04 09:14 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

500grains and Mickey

"Two identical rifles in the same calibre"

Sounds like something with twin locks, 2 barrels and the same calibre to me.

(.275 member)

25/07/04 09:21 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

A 9.3x62 or 9.3x74R and a lighter rifle in 6.5x55 or 7x57.

Robie J.

(.333 member)

28/07/04 07:36 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

470 Nitro double and 338/378 W'by. Does it for me.

(Sponsor)

28/07/04 07:57 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

375 H&H mag bolt action with quality QD mounts and scope and express sights.
Big open sighted double of 450 cal and up.

(.300 member)

28/07/04 11:00 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I agree with WyoJoe.

If it were me, I'd be taking my 300 H&H Ruger #1 (sighted to 250-300yds with 1.75-5 scope) and my .375 H&H BRNO 602 (with iron sights regulated to 100yds, and low-power 1-4x, if needed, sighted to 200yds in QD mounts).

Sometimes the old forumlas work. The 300/375 combo was the classic British 2-gun battery for Africa. If a third gun was brought, it was likely a custom .303 Jeffrey- or Rigby-Lee Speed Sporter, or possible a .275 Rigby. (The PH, of course, wielded the heavy artillery).

In any event, you don't want to bring along 2 rifles chambered for cartridges that are near-duplicates of each other. And your decision should be guided by the range of species you intend to hunt.

(.300 member)

05/08/04 11:59 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Well its either great minds think alike or fools never differ. When I eventualy go to Africa ,it will be with my 458 Lott and the 300 weatherby I just bought.

(.333 member)

11/08/04 11:48 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I think that one of the .300s plus either a .416 or .458 would be just about perfect.

I've used the .300 Win. Mag./.458 Win. Mag. combo before with perfect results, and next year I'll take the .300 Win. and a .416 Remington.

One of my friends is big on the .300 Weatherby teamed with a .450 Ackley, and one of his friends just used, with great success, a .300 Winchester and a .450 Dakota.

If buffalo, hippo, etc. are on the dance card, I'd rather take a two-gun battery with a .300 at the light end and either a .416 or .458 at the heavy end, rather than rely simply on a .375 H&H for everything.

ADay

(.450 member)

13/08/04 10:26 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I'd opt for the 458 and 375 H&H. That way if something were to happen to the Lott, you can still use the 375 for Buffalo.

(.450 member)

13/08/04 10:29 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

You have to be careful, as some African countries won't allow you to bring in 2 rifles of the same calibre.

(.375 member)

28/08/04 07:16 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Trex,
To answer your question, try 83 or 84 grs. of IMR-4320 and any good 500 gr. premium bullet for about 2350 FPS..That will lay low anything on this earth or Marrs...and I really like those 300 gr. Woodlighs in the 338 for African use, and if you run into an upset Buff or Lion while hunting plainsgame, just shoot'em..it'll work fine...

I can't think of a better combo for Africa than a .338 Win paired with a 375, 416, 458 or whatever....that covers the field and still keeps you armed for surprises.

Administrator

(.700 member)

28/08/04 12:42 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

In reply to:

Poster: 4seventy
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

375 H&H mag bolt action with quality QD mounts and scope and express sights.
Big open sighted double of 450 cal ....

What an incredibly wise man!

I hope Alan's hunting in the Gulf is going well.

(.333 member)

28/08/04 05:23 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

En respuesta a:

470 Nitro double and 338/378 W'by. Does it for me.

I also think that way

.

(.333 member)

29/08/04 05:19 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Don't have a 300 or 338 so I will take my 375 H&H as well as my 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser!

Its what I have so I will go with it!

(.300 member)

03/09/04 06:30 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

No long shots? All the plains game I've taken has been with 300 Mags (Win and Weatherby) - a dozen head ranging from kudu (58" and a measured 325 yards - the longest shot I've tried on game). I find I can't shoot anything bigger than 300 Weatherby off a bipod or rest without holding the forearm.

I took my buff in Zambia with my 470 double but the PH brought along my 300 Weatherby in case a long shot was needed - he was a bit tense because my primary target was buff and the safari operator had booked me onto a concession with only 3 male buff seen all season I got one and another Australian on an earlier also got one.

If I was going again I'd probably take a Mauser 66 with 30-06 Ackley, 9.3x64 Brenneke and 458 Win barrels.

mike

(.333 member)

03/09/04 07:10 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

En respuesta a:

No long shots?

I don't like to shoot from more than 150 yards anywhere. In Africa, one miss is a lot of money and, may be the only chance, lost.

(.375 member)

04/09/04 02:39 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Mike

Do you know where to get extra barrels for the Model 66? Are they easy to find? Thanks

Adam

(.300 member)

05/09/04 02:37 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Adam, I've collected a few over the years in Australia but they are not common. One gunsmith here - who is mainly a barrel maker had some of the receiver components (which are the part of the barrel the bolt locks into) and could make up barrels. I'm not sure what the situation is now.

The 66 is a great rifle - 2-3" shorter than a standard bolt action because of the telescoping bolt and very accurate - possibly because it is functionally pillar bedded and free floating. Remove two screws to swap barrels, another screw allows you to swap trigger groups in seconds (eg from double set to a single stage - useful if going from 243 to 458.

mike

(.300 member)

18/09/04 10:57 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Trex,
I have been to Africa twice-have seen a number of guns used
over there and at home in Australia.I have come to the conclusion that a 338 will kill anything with the right
projectiles.As a second rifle-a stopping weapon-458 and
above.

(.275 member)

19/09/04 02:20 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

My last safari to Zimbabwe was a two-gun battery. I wanted
to hunt dangerous game (elephant,lion,buff,..) with
my 450/400 3 1/4" Lancaster Double rifle. I was also going
after some plains game/bait animals.

I ended up taking the 450/400 Double & a 416 Rigby bolt
action rifle with a scope. I used the 416 on zebra, hyena,
impala,... & the double on the bigger stuff.

My rationale was that if something happened to my double
or if that rare 52" Buff showed up at 120 yds then I could
use the 416. I think a 375, 404, 9.3 x 74r, or the 416
make a reasonable all-purpose caliber which are capable &
legal on dangerous game.

I think a scoped (QD) rifle in the above all-purpose calibers
& a nice double rifle make a fine 2-gun battery.
It might even be nicer if they shot the same caliber.
I saw a nice Westley Richards Farquarson single shot rifle
on HALLOWELLS site in 450/400 3 1/4". That might be nice
vintage companion for my Lancaster 450/400. The big
question is would they regulate at the same load or would
I need 2 seperate rounds, thus negating the same caliber
benefit. Just a thought!

(.375 member)

29/09/04 05:23 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Trex,
In response to your question about the 458 Lott I would load about 83 top 84 grs. of IMR-4320 behind a 500 gr. Northfork, Woodliegh or Swift, and some Northfork flat nose solids, or just use his wonderfull Northfork cup points altogether...

In the 338 I would load up some 300 gr. Woodleigh PPs and about 10 flat nose solids...

If something went wrong with your 458, never think the 338 won't kill a buffalo with the above loads, it will in spades..I have shot several with those exact loads....In fact the 300 gr. 338 Woodleigh will out penitrate any 300 gr. 375 bullet...Thats 95% of the battle.

(.400 member)

17/11/04 05:38 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

Hey gang,

I'm moments away from securing a new Chapuis 470 Nitro DR to add to my Merkel 375H&H DR when this old post came to mind. Both are up to the task if either had a major malfunction and both will shoot factory ammo well enough.

1950 Beechcraft Bonanza rules the sky!

(.300 member)

18/11/04 01:19 AM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

I'm going back with a 9.3x62mm and 458 Lott.

(.300 member)

05/12/04 04:36 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

My two rifle battery is

.375 H&H mag (Winchester pre-64)
.500 Jeffery (Heym Express bolt action rifle)

Loads are 270 grn Rhino solid shank, for the .375 and
550 grn home made cup point solids

for the .500 Jeffery

Cheers,

Andr�

(.275 member)

08/01/05 05:05 PM

Re: Suggestions for Two Battery Rifle for Africa

A CZ550 in 416 Rigby with a 1.5X Scope and a CZ550 416 with iron sights. Both with Nosler's partition.

http://www.cafepress.com/416rigby

NitroExpress.com

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