This is starting to sound like a politicol debate with a liberal. When they cant or wont argue facts or results thay just resort to personal attacks, ill not take part in it any longer. And if I ever go on safari for DG I am going to have to use a Barrett 50 BMG because according to you guys that for it to be adequate it has to be able to stop an elephant charge and still drop plains game at long range, and fire at least a 500 gr bullet at 10,000fps what a load of bull. If the 45-70 had been made in england you guys would think it was awesome. And for the record Grizzly, Few if any indian ever killed a bison with a bow they herded them off of cliffs. And the shots during the bison slaughter were at extended ranges often hundreds of yards (so the shooter (*not hunter) wouldnt be trampled. And the 45-70 was the most common because of the abundance of ammo and inexpensive rifles available because it was a military round. But hey what do I know I never research anything. i also believe that if the bison had been hunted (not massacred) they would have a reputation like the cape buffalo do. MORE HERESY!!