Wynnwood,

I didn't feel the need to reiterate your buff with bow since its in your posts on this thread; you also alluded to the bear(s?) in this thread too, I believe.

In your posts on the other forums you at least give lip service to the limitations of the 45/70 ie only really close, broadside heart/lung shots..., here you seem to be backing off from that with the TREX comment. Was rereading Gregor Woods' book last night in which he quotes Selous and others regarding the inadequacy of the 450 Express with relatively heavy and hard cast bullets. Ditto their comments on the 500 Express. Nothing has changed in 100 years and the 45/70 loads your talking about are in the same legue as the 450 Express. That cartridge was well thought of as a deer and antelope round, what more needs to be said.

Here's a good quote, Woods quoting Samuel Baker:

"For all animals above the size of fallow deer and below that of the buffalo I prefer the 577 solid Express-648 grains solid bullet, 6 drams powder...For smaller game, from fallow deer downward, I prefer the 400 Express...[A]ll animals from a buffalo upward should be placed in a seperate catagory...I do not think any larger bore is actually necessary than a No. 8, with a charge of 12 or 14 drams of powder...It may therefore be concluded that for a man of ordinary strength, the battery for for the heaviest game should be pair of double No.8 rifles weighing 14 or 15 pounds, to burn from 12 to 14 drams of powder, with a hardened bullet of 3 ounces. SUCH A RIFLE WILL BREAK THE BONES OF ANY ANIMAL FROM AN ELEPHANT DOWNWARD, AND WOULD RAKE A BUFFALO FROM END TO END, WHICH IS OF GREAT IMPORTANCE WHEN THE BEAST IS CHARGING."

The last sentanced emphasized by me.

Even in historical perspective, makes the 45/70 look pretty anemic, let alone a bow.

On the 45/70 issue, which I didn't really want to get into since it ussually seems to turn into a pissing match, its advacates are always talking of their 400 or even 450 grain bullets at 1800-2000 and either comparing them to the 450/400 NE or to the 458. The 450/400 400 grainers have more velocity and probably more critical to their success, from all I have read, they have much greater sectional density. Until the monometal 450 grain 458 bullets changed things somewhat all advise from manufacturers was too steer clear of the lighter bullets in the 458 for dangerous game and these are moving at 2400 +/-.Most still advise against 458 bullets lighter than the 480 grainers of the 450 NE etc.

African DG hunting now and in the past is and was a team sport. The greats of the past had trackers and gunbearers and so do PH's now and when we hunt we become part of that team. I believe a hunter should be equiped to carry his weight as a team member. Amoungst other obligation, such as learning to shoot well and practising, it is incumbent upon him to use enough gun to keep or get a team member out of trouble, especially if he's the one that got him in trouble to start with. Neither the bow nor the 45/70 comes close to meeting that requirement.

My thoughts (and the thoughts of Samuel Baker too !)

JPK