Posted my answer to your question over on AR, with pics, so won't duplicate. My experiences with AB's have been just the opposite of Ripp's, as long as the speed is kept down. Just expand too quick on the ultra-hot loads. They shoot great and perform as designed, and most were pass-thrus on game with large exits. I just never have gotten acceptable accuracy from either A-Frames or Scirracos in any gun I tried, so gave up on them.