NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
27/06/23 02:37 AM
Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Several close calls.



http://nitroexpress.info/ezine/Videos/2023/06/CMbuffcharge.mp4


Rule303
(.416 member)
27/06/23 07:10 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Man that was close. If they had not kept cool heads I think it would have ended differently.

Marrakai
(.416 member)
27/06/23 10:34 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I'll bet ol'mate with the hat has been practising his double rifle reload every day since!

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
27/06/23 04:01 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Lots of twits on the net saying how bad it all was.

Looks hairy and exciting to me but quite possible.

Buzz wrote when sharing the video, he planned to put it out in a show, but it had been leaked and lots of silly comments were being made. I'll have to dig up Buzz's comments.

He did say the client shot the buffalo well in the chest. Probably before the charge video starts.

Buzz commends his PH for being cool reloading, keeping his eyes on the gun reloading.m Then shoots the buffalo from the hip.

At very close range, as shown in the video.

I noted how the PH didn't shoot with the client inline behind the buffalo. Either because the PH wasn't reloaded yet. Or because of it. Or both. The client does scoot out of the way suddenly.

Good action video. Shit happens hunting dangerous beasts. Why cape buffalo are not milk cows.


93x64mm
(.416 member)
27/06/23 08:31 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Very lucky not to get horned!

eagle27
(.400 member)
28/06/23 02:56 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I'm a bit confused as to who is who in the video. Is the guy with the hat and the double the PH and the guy with the bolt action the client? The video doesn't come through in great quality.

It was certainly a close shave situation. A couple of observations;

A double is good for two quick shots but if they are not effective at stopping the charge you are standing with a completely empty gun and under that sort of pressure you are not going to be able to reload the double quickly. Yes he did ultimately manage to reload his double but was very vulnerable once the bull was in close and it was only good fortune rather than good management he wasn't nailed.

The guy with the bolt action seemed to be slow or having trouble getting another round chambered and ended up stepping back into the camera man which could have been real nasty if they had both gone down. I have a copy of another buffalo charge video where the PH's bolt action would not eject empty cases, they had to be cleared by hand. I would clout a PH round the ears for that sort of thing if I were hunting with one.
A DG, or any game for that matter, bolt gun should be absolutely slick feeding and positive ejecting able to be operated without taking your eye off the animal.


grandveneur
(.400 member)
28/06/23 04:57 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I always hold myself back with assessments of the conduct of the clients and the PH when it comes to such videos. Nobody knows how himself would behave in such a situation.

One should certainly be well armed for backup, and the client should also for all cases carry a suitable weapon for hunting DG and should it master well.

However, things can go wrong. Years ago in Burkina Faso a wounded buffalo managed to injure two clients and the PH before it was kill. One of the clients was few days in the hospital. All three hunters were armed with rifles caliber 375 H&H Magnum. A rifle was destroyed when one of the hunters used it to protect himself from the horns of the buffalo. None of the listeners gave advices when the PH told the story.

It is best to hunt buffalos myself often so that the danger increases that some things will go wrong at some point. Then one becomes much more modest with the comments about the conduct of the others.


500Boswell
(.400 member)
28/06/23 05:46 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Theres that vid on Ad Tube of several of them with, I think they had 30-06s and 270s and getting their arses kicked by a Cape Buffalo

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
28/06/23 10:51 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:


It is best to hunt buffalos myself often so that the danger increases that some things will go wrong at some point. Then one becomes much more modest with the comments about the conduct of the others.




Well said.


eagle27
(.400 member)
29/06/23 07:06 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Nothing wrong with analyzing incidences rationally, how do we ever learn to improve or prevent/ minimise dangerous situations arising again. Those hunters were within in inches of losing their lives or being seriously injured. Both hunters managed to get out of the situation but it did highlight how doubles have limitations despite what some wish to believe and bolt guns need to work slick and fast to best use their mag capacity.

bwanabobftw
(.375 member)
29/06/23 08:24 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I’ll refrain from judgement, you never know what you’d do under the same circumstances. Glad no one got hurt.
Robert


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
29/06/23 11:00 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

Nothing wrong with analyzing incidences rationally, how do we ever learn to improve or prevent/ minimise dangerous situations arising again. Those hunters were within in inches of losing their lives or being seriously injured. Both hunters managed to get out of the situation but it did highlight how doubles have limitations despite what some wish to believe and bolt guns need to work slick and fast to best use their mag capacity.




Yet the double rifle worked in the hands of the hatted PH. The bolt action client initially shot the buffalo before the video starts. Ends up with an empty bolt action. The PH's DR finishes the buffalo.

So on that basis and evidence the bolt action has more limitations.


Rule303
(.416 member)
30/06/23 07:22 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

Quote:

Nothing wrong with analyzing incidences rationally, how do we ever learn to improve or prevent/ minimise dangerous situations arising again. Those hunters were within in inches of losing their lives or being seriously injured. Both hunters managed to get out of the situation but it did highlight how doubles have limitations despite what some wish to believe and bolt guns need to work slick and fast to best use their mag capacity.




Yet the double rifle worked in the hands of the hatted PH. The bolt action client initially shot the buffalo before the video starts. Ends up with an empty bolt action. The PH's DR finishes the buffalo.

So on that basis and evidence the bolt action has more limitations.




Neither of the shooters knew their weapons very well. Both were looking at their guns to reload. The bolt action seemed to fill his mag instead of getting 2 rounds in and shooting. The double shooter kept looking at his gun and struggled to get 2 shells in. Yes, the pukka factory would not help but both did very well to remain as calm as they appeared to be IMHO.


DarylS
(.700 member)
30/06/23 09:11 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Close shave!

eagle27
(.400 member)
30/06/23 12:27 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Nothing wrong with analyzing incidences rationally, how do we ever learn to improve or prevent/ minimise dangerous situations arising again. Those hunters were within in inches of losing their lives or being seriously injured. Both hunters managed to get out of the situation but it did highlight how doubles have limitations despite what some wish to believe and bolt guns need to work slick and fast to best use their mag capacity.




Yet the double rifle worked in the hands of the hatted PH. The bolt action client initially shot the buffalo before the video starts. Ends up with an empty bolt action. The PH's DR finishes the buffalo.

So on that basis and evidence the bolt action has more limitations.




Neither of the shooters knew their weapons very well. Both were looking at their guns to reload. The bolt action seemed to fill his mag instead of getting 2 rounds in and shooting. The double shooter kept looking at his gun and struggled to get 2 shells in. Yes, the pukka factory would not help but both did very well to remain as calm as they appeared to be IMHO.




In that situation with the buffalo in amongst the hunters you should just get one round in either rifle and make it count. As it was the double rifle shooter fired one round from the hip and dropped the buff almost on top of himself. A fraction of a second later the buff would have had him down. It was just sheer luck they both got out alive and for that matter same for the cameraman who was in the fray too.


grandveneur
(.400 member)
30/06/23 04:08 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

You all seem to have a lot of experience with buffalo attacks.

I have shot several buffalos in the last 30 years, not all of them were peaceful, but I might still learn something from reading your comments about what the two hunters should have done better.


Waidmannsheil
(.400 member)
30/06/23 05:00 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I have shot a number of Buffalo but not huge numbers. However one thing that was certain from that footage is that there was a lot of bad shooting and reloading going on. I would suggest that there was not a lot of practice of either going on before hand.

A 50 Caliber would have been much more helpful in that situation, just ask Kevin Robertson.

Matt.


grandveneur
(.400 member)
30/06/23 06:16 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Sure, there were some mistakes made, but as some have write, none of us knows in advance how he would behave in a situation like this.

We don't know how experienced the client was, but dangerous situations are difficult to practice at home in advance. Professionalism is to be expected in all cases from PH and sure, also a client must have perfect command of his weapon.

As for using big bores for hunting DG, nobody needs to convince me that one have a clear advantage with these when it comes to hunting buffalos and especially if it does not go as planned.


DoubleD
(.400 member)
30/06/23 10:44 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

From 34 year of law enforcement training-scenarios and technique. I can tell you things that go smoothly on the training range quickly go to shit in the field.

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
01/07/23 01:38 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

From 34 year of law enforcement training-scenarios and technique. I can tell you things that go smoothly on the training range quickly go to shit in the field.




Very true.


bwanabobftw
(.375 member)
01/07/23 11:00 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

From 34 year of law enforcement training-scenarios and technique. I can tell you things that go smoothly on the training range quickly go to shit in the field.




Amen !!!!!!!!!!!


Rule303
(.416 member)
01/07/23 02:38 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

From 34 year of law enforcement training-scenarios and technique. I can tell you things that go smoothly on the training range quickly go to shit in the field.




As a General said, You can make the best of plans but when the first shot if fired it all goes to shit, or words to that effect.

Still does not change the fact that reptation practice normally means under stress you will more likely do what you have practiced without thinking. Been there done that, not with firearms but while flying so I know it can work.


Rule303
(.416 member)
01/07/23 02:43 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

You all seem to have a lot of experience with buffalo attacks.

I have shot several buffalos in the last 30 years, not all of them were peaceful, but I might still learn something from reading your comments about what the two hunters should have done better.




Havbe not shot many Buff but that does not mean I cannot pick fault and learn from it.


Waidmannsheil
(.400 member)
01/07/23 05:37 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

This is one of the reasons we have a number of events at the BGRC shoots that require reloading under pressure, the pressure in this case being time and the other competitors who are all hoping that you shoot worse than them. Obviously its not the same as a real life situation however it still does help you when it comes to actual hunting. When Mick and I were up in the NT we shot our six buffs in 15-20 seconds. While the first two were killed with off hand shots, the other four where shot while running and reloading which worked perfectly without any flaws and it happened totally naturally without having to look. This doesn't happen without practice.

At our Vic BGRC range we now have a second range divided by a massive concrete wall which has been called the dangerous Game range on account of the types of events held on it. It is in a natural setting with slightly sloping ground, plenty of trees and a creek bed half way along. We shoot targets in a similar vein to the BASA shoot in South Africa where the targets are actual pictures of animals in either full size or somewhat smaller depending on the the animal depicted. These include warthogs, buffalo, elephant, hippo and crocks etc. A scoring ring or two are placed over the brain or heart and lung and they are about 2 1/2" inches in diameter and drawn with a texta. A score within is five points and we have a second 1" ring around that ring which is 2 points. Maximum scope power is 3x and at the distances we shoot the ring cannot be seen so you have to know where to shoot. We start gun empty with hands on the stock, the timer is started and one has to load two rounds, fire and then reload another two and fire, then the timer is stopped. We first shoot one round over a chronograph (Before the event is started) and then combine the time shot with the score and the power factor of the cartridge (Power factor being bullet weight x bullet diameter x velocity). This is done to promote the use of bigger cartridges and guns, it is after all a dangerous game shoot. This is by far the most popular event and is great fun, very exciting.

We are in the process of adding additional targets such as rotating and springing targets as well as a charge box. Some of these events will include running from one station to another before shooting but the main crux of all the events is a fast time and reloading to try and simulate pressure.

Is it the same as a real life situation, no. But apart from being great fun it definitely 100% helps getting your brain to work without having to think and muscle memory.

I use my 505 for all these events, I love it and I love that gun. And when it comes to hunting big game it cannot be beaten in my opinion. Well its the same as the 500 Jeffery and the 500 Nitro. No real difference. Although Mick and I didn't have 500 Nitro with us there was absolutely no difference between the 505 Gibbs and the 500 Jeffery.

Matt.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
02/07/23 08:48 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I think they did well. Especially compared to many other charge videos. Watching a video is far different than reality.

Training or spineing a buffalo charging through would-be better but shit happens in real life.

Hunting scenarios set up like practical pistol courses, make a lot of training sense and would-be great fun.

I've thought of setting up a private scenario, eg a standing target field shot, a running shot or two. Maybe a short run and reload, then a charging target. Simulating a shot or two on an undisturbed beast. Which then runs to the side. You need to reposition. A wounded charging beast comes straight for you. Maybe four go six shots in total. Including one or two reloads.

Which would be better, a double or a bolt action? Might depend on the range, the number of shots, the speed of shooting required,the ability to reload quickly, accurate shooting, but most of all, the ability of the shooter.

Great practice no matter what.

Bolt action shooters working a bolt at the waist not at the shoulder will quickly be weeded out.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
03/07/23 12:19 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

combine the time shot with the score and the power factor of the cartridge (Power factor being bullet weight x bullet diameter x velocity).




Crap formula. Velocity always will be the most important factor in this formula. Smaller calibre, lighter bullet but a very high velocity always wins out.

Also at some point better shooting is always so much more important.

If I brain shoot an elephant,buffalo, lion, etc with a .318 WR 250 gr FMJ, is it inferior to a .500 NE chest shot?

But it is easier to shoot.

A good reason to have calibre cartridges in a competition in groups and minimums as well.

Easier to shoot a 7x57 on paper targets than a .450 NE. But the "opposite" on real dangerous game for most people and circumstances.


DarylS
(.700 member)
03/07/23 12:50 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I agree on the velocity's "Importance" given for the FPE formula, but the power factor also takes into consideration the bullet diameter. None of the other formulae do this.
With FPE formula the vel. is squared, but not with the "Power Factor" or the momentum formula.
The Momentum formula is better I think than FPE, but does not take into consideration, the bullet's diameter.
The Power Factor gives equal weight to all of these.
Of course, bullet construction is not addressed, which is also of equal or perhaps of the most importance. Thus, there is no mathematical formula which covers all aspects needed for a "true" picture. Some, are just better than others.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
03/07/23 01:25 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

I agree on the velocity's "Importance" given for the FPE formula,




Imo for thick skinned game, velocity is the least important factor. Bullet weight, calibre and construction far more important.

Tried some examples ....


.308 X 150grs X 3500fps = 161,700

.510 X 570grs X 2000fps = 581,400


OK maybe the velocity in the formula isn't asdramatically skewed as I first thought. After trying some examples.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
03/07/23 02:03 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:


At our Vic BGRC range we now have a second range divided by a massive concrete wall which has been called the dangerous Game range on account of the types of events held on it. It is in a natural setting with slightly sloping ground, plenty of trees and a creek bed half way along. We shoot targets in a similar vein to the BASA shoot in South Africa where the targets are actual pictures of animals in either full size or somewhat smaller depending on the the animal depicted. These include warthogs, buffalo, elephant, hippo and crocks etc. A scoring ring or two are placed over the brain or heart and lung and they are about 2 1/2" inches in diameter and drawn with a texta. A score within is five points and we have a second 1" ring around that ring which is 2 points. Maximum scope power is 3x and at the distances we shoot the ring cannot be seen so you have to know where to shoot. We start gun empty with hands on the stock, the timer is started and one has to load two rounds, fire and then reload another two and fire, then the timer is stopped. We first shoot one round over a chronograph (Before the event is started) and then combine the time shot with the score and the power factor of the cartridge (Power factor being bullet weight x bullet diameter x velocity). This is done to promote the use of bigger cartridges and guns, it is after all a dangerous game shoot. This is by far the most popular event and is great fun, very exciting.

We are in the process of adding additional targets such as rotating and springing targets as well as a charge box. Some of these events will include running from one station to another before shooting but the main crux of all the events is a fast time and reloading to try and simulate pressure.

Is it the same as a real life situation, no. But apart from being great fun it definitely 100% helps getting your brain to work without having to think and muscle memory.




That sounds like great fun and excellent practice.

The only thing missing is if the charging target is not shot with at least one 10, your score should be zero. As you are probably dead.

Adds some tension and stress and a reason why a double barrelled rifle excels. Real emergency use not paper scores.


eagle27
(.400 member)
03/07/23 11:36 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

If you divided your power factor by 7000 (bullet weight in pounds) then you have Pondoro Taylors TKO value.

While this measure of performance of large calibre cartridges on big dangerous game gets it's share of sceptics, they seem to ignore the fact that Taylor came up with this formula based on the use of heavy solid bullets just missing the brain of elephants but still providing enough stun effect to cause the collapse of the animal and a period of incapacitation allowing a killing shot to be applied. Obviously this sort of performance can also be applied to other large heavy dangerous animals.

Most of the big nitro express cartridges in use during Taylor's time operated with velocities in the 1900-2500 so he found comparisons of performance of these cartridges was better recognised by placing equal store on bullet diameter, weight and velocity.

Taylor, who was a veritable poacher, is credited with killing over 1500 elephant and hundreds of buffalo, rhino and hippo and found that his TKO value gave a good correlation to performance of individual cartridges on these animals.

Those sceptics that discredit his formula should be prepared to back their credentials and tell us how many elephant and other DG they have stood and faced alone without backup and of course with what cartridge/s they were using to match his performance.
W.D.M. Bell you keep quiet and stay out of this discussion.


grandveneur
(.400 member)
03/07/23 04:52 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I prefer the two formula of A-Square, the Penetration Index and the Shock Power Index, to the antiquated TKOF.

By hunting DG, it is in a first time all about the first shot placement, where precision and depth penetration count, and only then, especially if something has gone wrong, the schock power for a sufficient stopping of a charge. If you take both factors into account, the situation is very different with many cartridges.

If you only make backup, you can concentrate more on the shock effect, but since the absolute majority of us hunt above all, and very few have to make their backup, both indexes should be taken into account. You can see immediately which cartridges are ahead and have the compromise between depth penetration and shock. They are not the biggest, but also not the ones that are so highly praised by the majority of the African hunters nowadays in terms of their effect.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
04/07/23 02:29 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Buzz Charlton's online comment:

Quote:

I had hoped that this video would have first been seen on a show with some editing unfortunately it some how got leaked and looks like it’s gone viral so thought I may as well post it .

A very close call indeed . What I find amazing is the arm chair hunters / critics full of advice many of whom probably have never shot a buff let alone a wounded charging buff . Some facts

1 /Clients first shot was excellent you can see the exit behind the shoulder - the buff happened to charge on first impact
2/ Deans first shot was 1 inch high second shot exited
3/ Dean had the incredible presence of mind to focus on loading his double and not taking his eyes off his gun while the buff bore down on him- he managed to load and shoot off the hip dropping it at his feet with a shot in the neck
4/ had he focused on the buff for a second it would have been a disaster
5/ There certainly are no shortage of clowns out there that think they could do better - well done Dean and the client on getting out safely and a beautiful buff !

www.cmsafaris.com




Waidmannsheil
(.400 member)
04/07/23 03:51 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Thats not the actual formula, I was just showing the three ingredients, probably shouldn't have included the "x". The actual formula always favors the bigger diameter and heavier bullet, so the exact opposite to what you said. Hence why it also favors bigger guns. Its the formula that BASA use. I can find out what the actual formula is. Our Dangerous Game shoot is Group one minimum, so 0.330" and 225 grain.

Matt.


DarylS
(.700 member)
05/07/23 01:20 AM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Quote:

Quote:

I agree on the velocity's "Importance" given for the FPE formula,




Imo for thick skinned game, velocity is the least important factor. Bullet weight, calibre and construction far more important.

Tried some examples ....


.308 X 150grs X 3500fps = 161,700

.510 X 570grs X 2000fps = 581,400


OK maybe the velocity in the formula isn't as dramatically skewed as I first thought. After trying some examples.




I stand by my statement that the Velocity is VITALLY important for the FPE formula as I said.
That formula was used to show an advantage for high velocity ctgs. compared to lower velocity rounds of the same diameter - ie: WTBY's. We ALL know that bullet weight, construction and diameter are just as, if not more important than velocity.
The FPE formula is not a good one for 'showing' killing power. We also all (I would hope) know that to be true.
A .22-250 with a 40gr. HP bullet produces the same FPE as a .45/70 BP round with 500gr. bullet. I know which one I would rather have for moose and bear shooting. There are so many such comparisons one could make.


500Boswell
(.400 member)
05/07/23 09:05 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

I'm sure John Hunter said never to take your eyes off the animal ,and to use a stopping round ,for me it would need to be a 500 NE or 577 NE/585 ,and at least to me, reloading your rifle without looking at it, and keep your eyes on the animal ,that's just my view ,Not saying I could have done it better, but we all can learn something from this ,Cape Buffalo being a big solid animal ,i've shot about 70 Water buffalo with a 378,458 Lott ,470 NE and 585 ,hopefully will get a Cape Buffalo some day.

Waidmannsheil
(.400 member)
05/07/23 09:57 PM
Re: Dramatic Charlton McCallum buffalo charge footage

Ok so I have the formula we use which is the same as used in the Basa shoot.

This power factor is based upon a foot pounds calculation. It could be done using another method of calculation for another power factor. None are perfect. This one was derived from BASA and it seems just fine as it rewards those who use powerful rifles.

The formula:

1+ ((Bullet Weight) x (Velocity x Velocity)) / 4502400000


The above formula gives the power factor which is then used in the following formula:


Power Factor x Score x (K / time in Seconds) where K is 385.8322563


This final formula gives your score and it is designed to favor bigger calibers. We have it set up on a Excel Spread sheet and is very easy to use.


Matt.



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