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Holy Cow!!!

How was the guy who got nailed?

ALEX

<a href="www.alexbeer.com" target="_blank">alexbeer.com</a>

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Gutless bunch of barstards that ran,except for the native with his fighting axe who was prepared to have a go.
Al

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So does any one know:

Was the client the double rifle shooter?

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Gutless bunch of barstards that ran,except for the native with his fighting axe who was prepared to have a go.
Al

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The only guy running out of the firing lane was a video man, the other guy was getting in position to administer the killing shot.

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Albertan,what is your location,should be listed with your name.

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Shakari; I agree about the shotgun, though I have no experience shooting leopard. I do have experience shooting coyotes, monkey's and stock-chasing dogs with buckshot and the yotes & monks are very lightly-built critters, and I have tested various sizes in my media.






9.3:

Monkeys? Can you elaborate?

Re: Your comment about the M1 carbine. Audie Murphy, who knew a lot about combat marksmanship, went into action carrying a M1 carbine in his hands and a M1 rifle slung over his shoulder for long shots. John George ("A Rifleman Went To War") was also a fan of the carbine, preferring it to the Thompson SMG for close quarters work.

I would think a Model 92 Winchester in .32-20 or .44-40 or a Model 94 in .44 Magnum would be as good, if not better, and would have the advantage of not being semi-automatic. Both were designed by John Browning, a man who knew a thing or two about stock design for instinctive shooting.

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Shakari; I agree about the shotgun, though I have no experience shooting leopard. I do have experience shooting coyotes, monkey's and stock-chasing dogs with buckshot and the yotes & monks are very lightly-built critters, and I have tested various sizes in my media.






9.3:

Monkeys? Can you elaborate?

Re: Your comment about the M1 carbine. Audie Murphy, who knew a lot about combat marksmanship, went into action carrying a M1 carbine in his hands and a M1 rifle slung over his shoulder for long shots. John George ("A Rifleman Went To War") was also a fan of the carbine, preferring it to the Thompson SMG for close quarters work.

I would think a Model 92 Winchester in .32-20 or .44-40 or a Model 94 in .44 Magnum would be as good, if not better, and would have the advantage of not being semi-automatic. Both were designed by John Browning, a man who knew a thing or two about stock design for instinctive shooting.

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Monks as in red colubus in Congo almost 30 years ago.

Xausa, George's book is "Shots Fired in Anger". "A Rifleman went to War" was written by McBride.

Others liked the carbine, too. The great classic "The Jungle is Neutral", by F Spencer Chapman, DSO includes his very positive opinions of the carbine when they were dropped to guerilla groups in Malaya late in the war. Considered superb tools for hunting pigs, even with the FMJ ammo, he says few were handed in after the war was over. The handiness, lethality and the fact that all ammo made for them was NON-corrosive made them very appealing to jungle dwellers.

That tome is a must-read and still serves as a classic text for various service Escape-Evasion schools, so I am told.

Years ago, a friend in Norway told me some dropped from the air during WW2 were used for years on roedeer and such after the war. And I wonder how many still hang in barns and outbuildings in France, Netherlands, etc, etc, etc and are possibly used for this or that even today?

Xausa; I have a Winchester Trapper with 16 1/4 inch barrel in .44 Magnum. IMO, you are right. I can't imagine a finer defense gun for critters like a 150 lb cougar or leopard, especially loaded hot with good expanding bullets or Elmer's sharp-edged LSWC's.

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A fellow I know used a US M1 .30 Carbine for years on cougar {"lion" around here} and others I've spoken to also had great things to say about that rifle for cougar hunting. Would probably make a pretty good leopard gun to for followups. Seems anemic, I know, but for close fast shooting, using soft point ammo, the round is deadly, and the guns handle like a good shotgun. I doubt they are available or even legal where the leopard are, but just a thought...

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9.3
Agree with you the 30 carbine would be good but as you suggested not legal, just as those suggested by Xausa would also not be legal for leopard --at least they would not have been in the areas I have hunted them in...

As to the shotgun---as Shakari has stated, and everything I have seen and been told--I would NOT use that for leopard..have been told by more than one PH--they are worthless on leopard..and as suggested, penetration sucks....stick with the double...

I have shot many coyotes with the shotgun as well---off of a snowmobile and also calling them--based on what I see there,,would personally never use the shotgun..better than nothing, but just barely...

Ripp

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Shakari:

Out of curiousity, can you legally carry a handgun in any of the countries in which you hunt?

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I went over to the site from which this video originated. That is where I got the best laughs on what to do during such a crisis. It's a good thing the Duke is no longer with us. He would have had to hang'em up after judging the experience that manifested itself in the comments sections. In Zim, the PH carried a Ruger Redhawk in .44 magnum with a 4 inch barrel. He believed that it was his 2nd last line of defence. A fixed blade knife(and never a folding blade) being the last.

When we were closing in on a large, maned lion, his sagatious advice was thus:

Walter, whatever you do, do not fucking miss! Walter, do not fuck this shot up!

I use Uncle Mike's lens covers on many of my scopes. My PH removed them during dangerous game hunts as he believed during a charge they would block out the target at the last moment during a charge. I had not thought of it until he mentioned it and described what a charge was like. Many times you are shooting over the scope, just pointing and shooting. You will not, and cannot , hit what you cannot see.

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Had a very similar experience in hunting very thick stuff for buff--as to the lens covers--also removed the sling as it can get caught up in the brush..

As to the comments on the other web-site...only furthers my previous comments..one can get a lot of advice on these web sites--BUT, one has to sort out the BS from fact...

IMHO, of one does not, one can get oneself in a lot of trouble in a hurry when actually out there hunting the dangerous stuff..fortunately, there are a few on this site that are PH's or have some practical experience..which is very valuable..

As to shooting a leopard from a blind not sporting..."bite me"..
Armchair indeed....


Ripp

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FNFAL vs 12 bore, ay? That's a subject! Pick your projectiles - and the 12 is MUCH more powerful for close in work. Properly loaded, it doesn't need 20 rounds whereas the .308 probably would.

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I would not want Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner going after me with either an FAL or a Trench gun

But I do think Roland would have done better than the man in the video with the double rifle

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Shooting leopards from a blind is exactly that,SHOOTING not hunting.

As for armchair hunters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Its interesting that some PH's use a shotgun on leopard and some do not saying they are useless (maybe not slugs) but reading the comments here and on AR the best firearm to use on wounded leopard would be a FN FAL 7.62mm (or a Lithgow L1A1 )but if not available I would go for a fast lever Winchester .405 or Marlin .444 even a double .470 as these cats are like lighting.

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Interesting comments.
Shooting leopards from a blind is exactly that,SHOOTING not hunting.
Several experienced PH's from Botswana believe that a 10 bore loaded with 00 buck (18 pellets) is the prefered firearm for followup on wounded leopard.
As for armchair hunters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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One of the PHs Ive hunted with has successfully blown away many Leopard with a 10Ga but found its a bit limited on Lion
Not to sure about Blind hunting not being Hunting?
Alike shooting Gooks from a Ambush bunker. Sure would consider it killing in combat.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but shooting a leopard at very close range with a heavy calibre would do nothing except pass right through the animal without expanding and unless you hit a vital area, you would have a problem.

Generally-speaking, any caliber that generates over about 2000 fps at the strike also produces a certain amount of hydraulic affect that normally causes severe cavitation. This can be seen dramatically in testing media and in animals. Your statement is more a possibility than a probability tho I've seen this lack of hydraulic affect occur with smaller calibers at very close range.

Most importantly tho, it is not the "caliber" that passes thru. It is the bullet. Use a bullet that will expand and you will have a massive wound with a heavy NE caliber at bayonet range. Even if a guy is stuck with stoutly constructed bullets he could trick the points a bit to ensure quick opening. And the shots that Shakari is talking about are not at 400 meters but 4 feet where essentially muzzle velocity prevails.

As far as penetration is concerned with 00 BUCK ,those knockers of this round have obviously never used it.
I've personally shot pigs,goats ,donkey and scrub cattle with this round and put them all down.

I loaded some 410 2 1/2 inch cartriges with3 x 36 cal round balls and shot cattle at close range a while ago with a one shot one kill.

00Buck is 330 diameter.

My original post I thought was pretty clear. It is the poor patterning of 00 that I criticize, particularly on smaller critters I've used it on. Where it provides a tight pattern it provides no advantage; up close. There, a guy might as well use a rifle. A guy in my opinion is far better served with a gun that will do what the buckshot gun will do up close, and also be capable of, say, a 70-yard shot should that possiblitity occur. A 00 buck loaded shotgun would be worthless on a leopard at 70 yards. Also, my media testing of buckshot exposed one more problem with it that I never much thought of before I tested it; the erratic and relatively unpredictable nature of penetration. It was very difficult to predict how many pellets would go how far in the test media. Since shooting involves a certain amount of probabilities, I'd take a rifle every time over buckshot, tho obviously tons of game has been shot with buckshot over the years, in all countries everywhere.

As for shooting leopard from a hide on a bait,IMHO it would be more exciting going to the local shooting gallery.

To each his own. I suppose there are those who would say you aren't a hunter if you use a modern rifle, a 4x4 vehicle or Gore-Tex boots, too.

Incidently, we are not allowed to shoot cougar over bait, but I can assure you you will come home empty handed if you think you are going to merely wander into a secretive cat like the cougar or the leopard. For example, I know woods workers {loggers, foresters, etc} here that have spent their entire lives in the woods and never saw a lion, not one. Almost 30 years ago I spent six weeks tromping around leopard country in Congo and never saw one, just one serval cat at night. Just making the point that they aren't standing around waiting for a handout.

Here, we can chase lion with hounds and that is essentially the only way to do it. Tracking is impossible.

Interesting Shakari finds chasing leopard with hounds is undesireable to him. Maybe it is the terrain that makes it boring? I have never found the chasing of bear or cougar uninteresting here, that's for sure.

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As for shooting leopard from a hide on a bait,IMHO it would be more exciting going to the local shooting gallery.

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Shakari:

Out of curiousity, can you legally carry a handgun in any of the countries in which you hunt?

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Some you can, some you can't and some are a bit of a grey area. I carry one (40 S&W) where I'm permitted to and I also dress for a Leopard track. I wear jeans, a leather motorcycle jacket and a shamargh. Might not look the full ticket and it's hotter n hell, but at least it'd give me some protection.

I've only ever got nailed by a Leopard once in my life and that was only a few deep scratches down one forearm, but I've gotta tell you it doesn't just hurt, it FUCKING HURTS! and it doesn't stop doing that for weeks and weeks and so I'll take any protection I can get nowadays.

Of course, the best way to avoid getting beaten up by Mr Spots is to have the client shoot straight in the first place and the second best way is to shoot straight during the follow up....... and I've gotta tell you, that charge in the video is slow compared to some. At night esp, you have one chance and one chance only to get a shot off and even if you do connect, the bloody thing can land on top of you if you're not careful.

Incidentally, even a dead cat can be dangerous because of all the nasty things they carry, so after you've done the hero pic bit with him on your shoulders etc, make a point of washing your hands before you climb in the truck and shower well (preferably with dog shampoo) as soon as you can afterwards.

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What about some of the Ceramic Bullet proof plates as used by the Military ?

They are designed to be non restrictive.


The only problem I see with then is the claws could get behind them and rip it out.


Just a thought.

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They are HEAVY.

REALLY heavy, and totally restrict movement.

No doubt they'd stop a cat's teeth tho and might help if the client gets the gun going wrong when shooting the thing off Shakari!!

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I will be spending a fair bit of time in Botswana in the next couple of years,so it is interesting to read everyones comments on the subject.

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OK ,Steve now that the dust has settled on 00 BUCK lets consider what light fast handling firearm would be suitable on charging leopard or lion.
A 500 definately does not fit into that catagory so what alternatives do we have to stop a full blown charge .

Might I sugest a 10 or 12 bore paradox or smooth bore loaded with 750gn projectiles.

A 500 double would have to weigh around 10 1/2 pounds and your average 10 or 12 bore would weigh from 6 1/2 to 8 pounds.

Any thoughts on the subject.

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Seems that Shakari already answered you in regards to what considers fast enough handling.

I'll lean back and get comfy in my armchair and toss in my $.02, tho...

IMO it is your purposes here, Alan, that describe the "African niche" for the Marlin 1895 in .45-70. I'll go so far as to state that it would rank as high as just about anything else when loaded with 400 grain bullets of a variety of type from my long-shaft cast hollow points to jacketed soft points and running at 1500 to 1800 fps. My 402 HP goes 1640 fps and is a killer on game and in test media at short range duplicates the .375 H&H Magnum when that caliber is loaded with Premium jacketed bullets.

My Marlin is from the first year of Ballard rifling and has the 22 inch barrel. Even on a huge leopard, the gun would absolutely kill from any angle and break bones the whole way. Weight is around 7.5 lbs and handling is really superb. For shots from the front sight to 100 long paces, I really can't imagine anything better for handling of the rifle when mixed with killing of the leopard.

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OK ,Steve now that the dust has settled on 00 BUCK lets consider what light fast handling firearm would be suitable on charging leopard or lion.
A 500 definately does not fit into that catagory so what alternatives do we have to stop a full blown charge .

Might I sugest a 10 or 12 bore paradox or smooth bore loaded with 750gn projectiles.

A 500 double would have to weigh around 10 1/2 pounds and your average 10 or 12 bore would weigh from 6 1/2 to 8 pounds.

Any thoughts on the subject.

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Seems that Shakari already answered you in regards to what considers fast enough handling.

I'll lean back and get comfy in my armchair and toss in my $.02, tho...

IMO it is your purposes here, Alan, that describe the "African niche" for the Marlin 1895 in .45-70. I'll go so far as to state that it would rank as high as just about anything else when loaded with 400 grain bullets of a variety of type from my long-shaft cast hollow points to jacketed soft points and running at 1500 to 1800 fps. My 402 HP goes 1640 fps and is a killer on game and in test media at short range duplicates the .375 H&H Magnum when that caliber is loaded with Premium jacketed bullets.

My Marlin is from the first year of Ballard rifling and has the 22 inch barrel. Even on a huge leopard, the gun would absolutely kill from any angle and break bones the whole way. Weight is around 7.5 lbs and handling is really superb. For shots from the front sight to 100 long paces, I really can't imagine anything better for handling of the rifle when mixed with killing of the leopard.

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Belted "armchair leopard hunter" Magnum, I love this place

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Ripp

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I went over to the site from which this video originated. T

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