this is the best and most civil discussion of this i topic i've seen. i like the idea of the Garret cartridges loaded to 35,000psi and not trying to max out at 40,000. my experience with lever action 45-70's (one Marlin, one Browning 1886) is that the brass case expands at the base way more than i am comfortable with when loaded to the limit. the rifles don't wimper with such loads but i don't like it. i have found brass life way to short when run at the redline in my leverguns. i don't know if both rifles have generous chambers and i have never played with a Browning or Ruger single shot to compare before/after case dimensions. if anyone has that info on the single shots please share. i tend to use the 45-70 in the way writer Ken Waters does. as he states "let it be said that the 45-70 cartridge, even with full power loads, is not the equal of a .458 magnum nor should any attempt be made to make it so." i like this discussion because it involves the people here who have actually hunted game bigger than deer. happy holidays