| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 03/01/07 04:53 AM |
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Re: Convert P-17 to 300 H&H or????
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Quote:
Slightly off-topic, but reading Weiland's DGR book brought this query to the front-burner. I believe the correct terminology for the US Enfield was Pattern 1914 or P-14 (.303) and Model 1917 or M-17 (.30-06).
I take Terry Weiland's repeated use of the term 'P-17' to be in error. The only text I have specifically dealing with the P-14 and M-17 is Ian Skennerton's book "The US Enfield", which is a definitive text IMO, and I have checked this in a number of other military texts and rifle encyclopaedias on my bookshelf.
I think we should try to stick to the correct nomenclature wherever possible on these forums, Weiland's enthusiasm notwithstanding! Unless you're into steam locomotives, or HIV genetics, there is no such thing as a "P-17".
And here's another thing: I notice that Americans are hung-up on 'cock-on-closing' for their bolt-rifles, which makes absolutely no sense to me for two important reasons. Firstly, the bolt has the dual role of primary extraction of the case, and cocking the striker. Why put both these functions onto the same bolt-lift, when their resistance is cumulative? Isn't it smarter to do one on the lift, and one on the close, thus seperating their resistance, and avoiding their cumulative effect? The second point involves simple ergonomics: far more force can be exerted by the outstretched arm pushing downwards and inwards, than can ever be brought to bear pushing upwards and outwards! Try it for yourself!
Most Australians of my generation were brought up on Lee Enfields and P-14s, and cock-on-closing is second nature. I stand in awe at the amount of money changing hands within the US custom rifle industry to convert 'cock-on-closing' to 'cock-on-opening', when to me it defies common logic.
Anyway, there, finished.
Back to the virtues of the .300 H&H, which I would roundly endorse (in a properly customised P-14 or M-17) over the .300 Win Mag any day of the week!
: I've never heard of the M-17 as we've always called them P-17s- obviously in error according to your post - thanks for the correction.
; The .300H&H is a wonderful round, always has been. I've heard some of the guys wiht M70's complaining about case stretching with heavy loads, yet I've never done more than neck size in my .300 Win.mag.- never had to FL size or push shoulders back. I attribute that to the straighter case body and sharper shoulder - makes sense. In addition to that, I could very well do with a .300 H&H- just never had one.
: As to why a certain barrel is slow. I've no answer - some are fast, some are normal and some are slow. I've had them all, of course, so has about everyone. Some barrels are only slow with certain bullet weights. Why? My 6.5RemMag was that way. Using published ballistics with 140gr. and 100gr.my velocities were some 100fps high but not with 120's, running over 100fps slow. This one was an annomoly, though, as usually a slow barrel is slow.
; Sometimes a rifle will have an extraordinarily long throat or leade, which causes excessive bullet jump, which reduces pressure, which in turn reduces velocity. With these rifles, one can normally increase the powder charge until the pressure is up where it should be and then velocities will be correspondingly the same as if it had a normal chamber. In my rifle, max pressure delivered sub-stndard velocties. Nothing I could do. Re-chambing it reversed the situation.
: I don't know what, if anything can be done to 'reverse' a slow barrel. I don't know why mine reversed. I as just sort of ticked it did. Because I generally dislike .300 mags, I sold that rifle for a piddling $150.00 including dies, brass and scope mounts. It was a great shooter after re-chambering, though. My uncle only ever bought 1 box of ammo for it. When I received the rifle after his death, I also go the 'rest' of the ammo, 4 rounds unfired. He had fired 2 shots to check his scope's zero after bore sighting. It was out about 3" to 4" at 100 yards, but that was OK by him. The next 14 rounds took 14 moose. 220 Reminton/Peters KleenBore RN's. I chrono'd the remaining 4 rounds at 2,200fps into 1-1/2" group, 4" right of centre.
: Now it shoots 3,365fps with 1765gr. Noslers, but not by me. My favourite 'rifles' start at .375".