| Rule303 |
| (.416 member) |
| 25/11/20 06:39 PM |
Re: Some of the Top Infantry Rifles of all time...
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Thanks for posting Ripp.
Have to say I totally disagree with their pecking order.
I would rate the the FAL above the M16. It wasn't till well after Vietnam that the M16 became reliable and this was mainly due to better, less dirty propellants. Yes it could be reliable but was maintenance heavy for this to be the case. The SMLE M98, AK47, FN FAL and M16 to me would be the top 5 probably in the AK47, SMLE, M98, FN FAL, M16 order. The Garand would not make it into the top 5 in my book, it most certainly does not belong in No1 position. Innovative and basically a good design yes.
Mind you my criteria is based on reliability, effectiveness in the field, longevity and to some extent the cartridge it used. If I was to have the unfortunate need to go to war I would rather carry and use an AK47 then SLR (FAL) than an M16 or Garand or M14 by a country mile. M14 if I could not get one of my first 2 choices. Why, I have confidence in them and to some extent their cartridge against intended targets. I simply do not with the M16 and its derivatives or any other battle rifle using the 5.56. Yeah I know it works but only sort of. It still takes 2 to 3 rounds of 5.56 to do what one 7.62x51 does and the 7.62x39 still puts a bigger hole in the enemy.
If you base the selection on innovation then yes it would be a different pecking order but the subject heading is "The top 10 Infantry Rifles of All Time". So what ones worked, worked well, and had the trust, confidence of the user, and were proven on the battlefield.
You are in my opinion confusing that they are all in the same era.
An AK-47 did not exist in WW2.
A couple of centuries almost included in that line up. Lots of changes over that time.
If we had 10 infantry armed with Garands, and ten with M98s and ten with SMLE's which would be the most effective infantry fighting force. All other things being equal.
IMO and in fact without doubt the infantry with the Garand.
If ten were armed with the STG44, that might be different, if at usual combat ranges and not longer ranges.
Eight rounds, semi auto, considerable suppressing fire effectiveness. And a semi auto rifle which was also relatively reliable.
Agree with the M16 comments. For the guys that use a FAL, or an SLR, far preferred it to the M16. The FAL did have the advantage of auto fire, compared to the SLR as well, for those that could shoot it full auto.
Not at all. I well know the AK was not in WW2 and do not think I gave the impression it was. How the would the same number of soldiers armed with STG44 against the Garand go. The facts are still there that the SMLE and M98 saw far more combat in duration, campaigns and conditions. The Garand lasted how long before it was replaced??? Yes it was a good design for a limited time. Yes I would rather have the Garand in a fire fight than a bolt, until it failed to fire for what ever reason-other than empty. I would have preferred to lug a Bren gun than a Garand even if locked on semi auto. 30 rounds and a mag change was damn near as quick as inserting a clip. I have used a Bren so know a bit of what I speak.
The other thing missing is the general mindset of the infantry. With a semi auto it took a lot of training to stop the spray and pray method- same when fully auto was available.
What I am saying is show me the Garands battle history and then the K98's and SMLE's. The latter 2's rate in history as greater battle rifles than the Garand. Remember the title of the article "The top 10 Infantry Rifles of All Time". Not to be confused with best design of all time or best what might have been. If we are to make the claim of the Garand then we must include the Galil probably better than the FAL.