Daryl, I actually had a .17 Rem years ago --their "classic version"...and as you stated..was a nightmare to keep clean.. Having said that--all ofthe Remingtons I have had withthe exception of one..and that is out of probably 20 or more..shoot under an inch and in many cases noticeably better than that... have a .270 synthetic..all factory --and with factory loads shoots at 100yds all holes touching..while I am certainthere are always exceptions, I have been lucky I guess with mine asthey do shoot... I do feel Remingtons quality has suffered inthe past couple of decades...butthen so have many others, not that it makes any of this better...Weatherby is a prime example..I have never had one that shot good ever..maybe its justthe models I tried which weretheir lightweight versions..but one would think for 1400-1800the dang thing would shoot an inch or so..and I have now owned 7..bought a lightweight in .240 this fall--pathetic..took it in to have some work done it ..have not had time to shoot it yet... Then inthe early 90's had a friend who sold sporting equipment ..told methe barrels going on Ruger rifles backthen were costing Ruger about $18, per barrel..and based onthe ones I tried . it showed...thinkthey are better now..butthey sucked backthen... Remington is a working mans rifle as are Ruger, Winchester, etc...and in todays world ..with most, you no longer get what you pay for..so going either custom or semi-custom is always a good option.. Life is too short to have a gun you are not happpy with, IMHO.. Ripp