(.333 member)

29/05/23 10:38 PM

DORLEAC Krag Sporter

I have always had a strong attraction for the Krag.
Of course it's a system from another time but its design and the quality of its construction caught my attention.
It represents for me the transition between two eras, that of the end of the 19th century that privileged the quality of execution whatever the difficulties of machining and that of the beginning of the 20th that favored efficiency above all other considerations.
We marvel at the ingenuity of a Schöenauer spool magazine without wondering about the slowness of the percussion of an already outdated system.
In the same way I appreciate the remarkable softness of the Krag system…promising myself to correct some faults.
The advantage of becoming an old man is not to go blindly for one type of rifle action, but to consider each one at its best.
I always had in mind to build a sporter rifle with a US Krag action and it's when I saw the photos of one of this kind made by Westley-Richards before WW1 that I seized the opportunity for this challenge.
We started with a superb Springfield made US 1898 Krag action manufactured circa 1903, stripped of a carbine made from a badly weathered rifle.
After the traditional blue printing, the first challenge was to replace the original trigger system with a Springfield 1903 Canjar trigger that we greatly modified without any alteration to the original Krag receiver.
The bolt handle was then forged in a more elegant way and a Lyman n°1 bolt peep sight found its place on the cocking piece.
For the barrel we opted for a Lothar-Walther .308" 10" twist match grade blank that was turned according to our classic profile in 620mm length and chambered for the original 30-40 US cartridge.
The barrel bears a three leaves rear express sight and the hand made front sight sports a fine silver bead combined with a moon-sight.
Then a well-seasoned French walnut blank allowed us to dress this mechanism in our own style.
The rifle is now completed in the white and even though the express sight leaves are not yet filed, it has been regulated with a test rear sight at the range where it has delivered excellent accuracy and showed how comfortable and pleasant it's when shooting.

Regards to all.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com

(.470 member)

30/05/23 05:52 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

with allways the same degree of perfection!

(.300 member)

30/05/23 06:48 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Marvelous rifle! Certainly the slickest and prettiest Krag sporter I have ever seen. I've had a soft spot for both 1898 Krag's and 1903 Springfield sporters ever since I saw an article in the April 1980 issue of The American Rifleman about a custom Springfield .30/06 made by Adolf Minar and owned by Jack O'Connor. That rifle is a classic "American-style" sporter, built to be hunted but with a graceful stock and just enough engraving to make it elegant. Supposedly, O'Connor carried that rifle (along with a custom Mauser in .270) on many hunts and shot it so much he had to replace the barrel 4 times! So, he must have liked it... A lot!

Krags and Springfields may not be as sleek and streamlined as '98 Mausers, and over the years I have seen lots of opinions in print that they are "heavy" and "coarse". But I'm sure if any of those so called "experts" ever got their hands on this particular Krag, those attitudes would quickly change.

As always, thank you so very much for sharing!

J

(.400 member)

30/05/23 06:48 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Just awesome !!!!

(.300 member)

30/05/23 08:24 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Now that is just old school sexy. I love it!

(.400 member)

30/05/23 09:20 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

I would not call the Krag pretty but as always your work is more than pretty, it's outstanding. For some reason I really like your work when in the white, it seems to give beauty to odd designs and accentuates the quality of the wood. Maybe it's because the highly polished white metal is like stainless so even the old designs like the Krag are 'modernised' in some way. Strange theory on my part but you do somehow turn ugly to beauty in my old eyes. Keep them coming.

(.416 member)

30/05/23 09:30 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Very nice!

I especially like the Krag

(.400 member)

30/05/23 11:30 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Finest Krag sporter I have ever seen and a beautiful rifle.

The late Mark Benenson would have loved this rifle.

Administrator

(.700 member)

30/05/23 04:46 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Not Kraggy at all. Manifique!

I've never handled a Krag at all. But it is an interesting design.

A question. The magazine opening is on the right. But is the metal normally showing on the left side of the action as well?

Beautiful. Old classic cartridge as well.

If prefer to hunt with a .30/40 Krag Dorleac masterpiece anyday, than a modern plastic rubbish Crudemore.

Administrator

(.700 member)

30/05/23 04:48 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

PS JAoel, thanks for posting.
\ill gave to go back through your posts on here and elsewhere and see about adding some more.

A nice .250/3000 Savage comes to mind. Might be on here already?

(.300 member)

31/05/23 12:14 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Dorleac, have you ever built a Lee Speed type rifle? You make such beautiful sporting / stalking rifles, I would love to see your take on one.

J

(.700 member)

01/06/23 02:12 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Finest Krag sporter I have ever seen and a beautiful rifle.

Isn't that the truth.

(.400 member)

01/06/23 05:04 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

As always from Dorleac; superb!

Here's that Lyman No. 1:

(.416 member)

01/06/23 01:37 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Very nice work as always Mr D!
Certainly made a silk purse out of a sow's ear!
Sorry to all the Krag fans, no offence intended.

(.333 member)

01/06/23 08:59 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Very nice work as always Mr D!
Certainly made a silk purse out of a sow's ear!
Sorry to all the Krag fans, no offence intended.

I admire your bravery.

(.224 member)

02/06/23 08:24 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Another amazingly beautiful creation!

Best regards

(.375 member)

02/06/23 11:20 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

I’ve never thought of a Krag as a beautiful rifle, but that is a BEAUTIFUL RIFLE !!!!!!!!!! Wow, well done.
Robert

(.333 member)

03/06/23 12:31 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

I think you could hand Joel a Highpoint pistol and he'd make it look good.

Magnificent work as always!!!

(.375 member)

03/06/23 07:39 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Degoins, I think you might be correct about Joel and the HighPoint.

Administrator

(.450 member)

03/06/23 10:20 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Fantastic work, as always.

Please update this thread with photos of the completed rifle when appropriate.

Curl

(.224 member)

20/06/23 02:32 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Superb I think!

(.375 member)

25/06/23 07:42 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

The world most elegant Krag in the making.

(.300 member)

13/02/24 12:47 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Joel. Any updated pics of this Krag sporter?

Administrator

(.700 member)

13/02/24 04:38 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Joel. Any updated pics of this Krag sporter?

Joel's in the white photos are always do good. The rifles look more striking in the white

But good to see the finished blued final results as well.

Administrator

(.700 member)

13/02/24 04:44 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

What cartridge where the original military Norwegian Krags chambered for?

The Yank versions were .30/40 Krag.

What were the Norwegian rifles?

(.400 member)

13/02/24 10:06 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

What cartridge where the original military Norwegian Krags chambered for?

The Yank versions were .30/40 Krag.

What were the Norwegian rifles?

6.5x55 SE

Administrator

(.700 member)

14/02/24 12:19 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

A ha. Thanks.

(.470 member)

14/02/24 02:59 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

iirc, this were loaded a little bit down for the norwegian krag because it was not strong as the swedish mauser

(.300 member)

14/02/24 04:43 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

The single locking lug on the Krag was an issue with its strength. I have never handled a Krag but the smoothness. of the action is legendary.

(.700 member)

14/02/24 07:30 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Smooth they certainly are, as-is the Model 71/1876 and model 71/1884? Mausers, also with one lug.
At some point after 84, a second lug was added, seems to me.

Makes sense the 6.5x55's were downloaded a bit for the Krag, as the CIP standard max. running pressure for that ctg.in a '96 is 55,000psi.
The 96's(94's) were also chambered for 9.3x62's at 57,000psi, and Tradeexcanada had a few that were barreled and chambered for the .30/06, a 60,000psi round.

(.275 member)

14/02/24 04:29 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Norwegian Krags are 6.5 x 55.

Bill

(.400 member)

17/02/24 06:24 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen

(.450 member)

17/02/24 09:11 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen

It's interesting it's come down to us as the 6.5x55 Swede as I do believe the Norwegians did most of the cartridge development during the coordinated weapons program.

(.450 member)

17/02/24 09:18 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

That is truly a magnificent rifle!!

A technical question:

Did you lap the guide rib in to bear or leave as original?

The Norwegian Krag guide ribs serve as a second locking lug & I think the Danish Krags do, too. Not sure about the Danish rifles but I think so. During US development there was discussion/debate/argument about using the guide ribe as a locking lug with it being determined that was a problem for some reason that escapes me and the decision was made to leave a gap so it served as a safety lug only. I've read of some custom builders here in the US lapping in the front lug to allow the GR to bear as a second locking lug. I think maybe Sedgley did? Not sure.

Again...that is truly a beautiful rifle.

(.700 member)

17/02/24 12:13 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen

870 is pretty good and must be the 139gr. No flies on 2,854fps.

(.450 member)

17/02/24 12:26 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Quote:

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen

870 is pretty good and must be the 139gr. No flies on 2,854fps.

Seems way too fast even for a 30+/- inch barrel in acceptable pressures for the Krag action. One of our Norwegian members might weigh in but if I remember correctly, the Krag for a long time (maybe still?) was not normally used for the large animal class in Norway due to limitations of joules in factory loads (which were held to lower pressures amenable to the Krag action). Maybe somebody can weigh in and clarify?

(.700 member)

17/02/24 02:40 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Yes, it does seem high, but my rifles were running 140gr. at 2,940fps using Re#19.
I have actually reduced that to a 120gr. SST deer load at 3,020fps. from my Varberger's 22" bl.

(.450 member)

18/02/24 12:27 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Yes, it does seem high, but my rifles were running 140gr. at 2,940fps using Re#19.
I have actually reduced that to a 120gr. SST deer load at 3,020fps. from my Varberger's 22" bl.

I'd be curious what the actual pressures are of those top loads (in relation to normal working pressures in the Krag action). Not sure, but I believe there was some difference between Swedish & Norwegian military loads given the working pressures of the Mauser 94/96 and Krag.

(.470 member)

18/02/24 01:43 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

somewhere I had a 1950s norma catalog where you can find such information
they had also a 8x57IS with lower pressure for norwegian krag sporter in 8mm called "8 mm Moderat" because common 8 mm Mauser was to much. not with the first shot but after some time, will see if I find it.

(.450 member)

18/02/24 02:35 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

somewhere I had a 1950s norma catalog where you can find such information
they had also a 8x57IS with lower pressure for norwegian krag sporter in 8mm called "8 mm Moderat" because common 8 mm Mauser was to much. not with the first shot but after some time, will see if I find it.

Yes indeed. Here's one:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=100913086

(.470 member)

18/02/24 04:04 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

this is hard to find outside of norway, yes, I would take one for my collection of unusual.
find here that the original norwegian krag was strengthen in 1912, must have had some problems.

"M48 Krag Jørgensen elgrifle (Moose rifle). This rifle was first built as an M1912 carbine in 1918, for military use. Later, there were collected 500 locks from that model, and built as M48 hunting rifles. The M1912 lock is slightly stronger than the M1894 action. Since they intended to use a larger cartridge in this new model, they only used these kinds of actions. The rear sight is not very often seen on hunting rifles. The user is able to switch between 100m and 300m by rolling the wheel. Both the M48 and the M51 was built with 7,92 barrels. After a few years, they found out that the standard 7,92x57 ammunition was a bit too hot for the Krag Jørgensen action. Norma then produced a lighter ammunition that they called 7,92x57 moderate. This ammunition is about 10% weaker than standard 7,92x57 rounds. This ammunition went obsolete within not so many years." http://oldkongsbergarms.com/om/hunting%20weapons/m48%20krag%20jorgensen%20elgrifle.html

there was also a M51 Krag http://oldkongsbergarms.com/om/hunting%20weapons/index.html

(.470 member)

18/02/24 04:13 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

can't find the old norma catalog now only a pic showing the end of the story - Kongsberg M 52 with a new FN Mauser action

iirc, the 8x57 moderat pressure was reduced by 10% to be safe in the Model 1894 Krag action. we know this was in the 1912 modification of the Krag action.
so commercial US made 8x57 is maybe just the same stuff today.

(.700 member)

18/02/24 05:39 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

First two rows of pressure, are US PEZIO 35,000PSI and then CIP pezio of 57,000psi on the 8x57 JS. The righthand lines are for copper crusher CUP.
This is a very handy site.
http://kwk.us/pressures.html

(.333 member)

21/02/24 06:22 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Always had a thing for the US style Krag sporter, a beautiful rifle Joel.
A friend of mine in the States thinks he may have a Springfield Krag action "somewhere", so hopefully if he can find it, I would like to build a sporter but in 303 British instead of the 30-40.

Roger

(.416 member)

21/02/24 10:33 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Always had a thing for the US style Krag sporter, a beautiful rifle Joel.
A friend of mine in the States thinks he may have a Springfield Krag action "somewhere", so hopefully if he can find it, I would like to build a sporter but in 303 British instead of the 30-40.

Roger

That shouldn't be too hard if you can determine the thread of the Krag, overall their dimensions look fairly similar, perhaps a slight advantage to the Krag as far as capacity maybe? Both had similar performance, but a 303 Brit Krag would certainly be different for sure!

(.450 member)

22/02/24 01:06 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

Always had a thing for the US style Krag sporter, a beautiful rifle Joel.
A friend of mine in the States thinks he may have a Springfield Krag action "somewhere", so hopefully if he can find it, I would like to build a sporter but in 303 British instead of the 30-40.

Roger

From what I know (little) about the Krag action, I believe it, like the Mannlicher-Schönauer, is machined for the specific round. Whether the differences between Brit and Krag would suffice to cause trouble, I'm not sure. Would definitely test in every way possible before commencing a build.

Having said that, your idea would be fantastic if it works.

I picture a Tasman/Aussie-Anglo-American rendition, a sort of "Lee-Speed" layout w/ a Krag action. Would be a neat gun.

(.470 member)

22/02/24 06:03 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

if you allow me to come back to the 6,5x55 /norwegian krag question ... I was wrong

this is an early post war norma "catalog" if we call the 3 pages this way and it have the 6,5x55:

10,1 gramm bullet with only 720 m/sec for Mauser AND Krag-Jörgensen.
so it was one load for both but the 1912 modification of the K.-J. was no doubt necessary. it could be the military loads of norway and sweden were different.

would be interesting to compare the norwegian and the US krag action.

(.450 member)

22/02/24 03:33 PM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Check: 156 gr @ 2362 fps.

*************************

RE: 8mm's. Were you referring to the 8x54 Krag? Mixup maybe?

(.470 member)

23/02/24 04:33 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

no, the 8x54 have a 12,7 gramm bullet, the 6,5x55 10,1 gramm

why the 8x54 is also named Krag-Jörgensen is beyond of my knowledge. it was a hunting cartridge for rebore swedish Mauser rifles, never see a Krag-Jörgensen for this cartridge

(.450 member)

23/02/24 04:59 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

no, the 8x54 have a 12,7 gramm bullet, the 6,5x55 10,1 gramm

why the 8x54 is also named Krag-Jörgensen is beyond of my knowledge. it was a hunting cartridge for rebore swedish Mauser rifles, never see a Krag-Jörgensen for this cartridge

I only posted the 6.5 numbers so the Anglos knew what is going on.

I have read of the 8x54 in Krags before which follows the name. I've never seen one & I've never seen an 8x54 in a Swede either, tho I have seen regular "commercial 96" small ring 8x57's. I owned one.

(.400 member)

24/02/24 06:38 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Quote:

why the 8x54 is also named Krag-Jörgensen is beyond of my knowledge. it was a hunting cartridge for rebore swedish Mauser rifles, never see a Krag-Jörgensen for this cartridge

I think it has been more common in Norway where Krag was in military use.

(.470 member)

24/02/24 07:12 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

I have seen some swedish made rifles for sale chambered for the 8x54 over the years, not many but here and there. maybe sporters made from original military rifles by smaller firms in sweden but it looks like the idea not realy catch like the the other 6,5 mauser base cartridge - the 7x54Lapua, it was only a niche.
all sources say the the 8x54 was developt before 1914. could be it was a trial to rechamber the norwegian krag rifles

only rifle I find for sale now https://www.naturabuy.fr/Carabine-Carl-Gustaf-1896-8x54-Krag-Categorie-D-item-11482034.html

this looks like an old miliary rifle sporterized

all I have seen were similar, simple, cheap working rifles for the few weeks elk hunting season in autumn.
here is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAbTBosgTOE

he mention an LCN company but I can't see a mark on this rifle.

(.470 member)

24/02/24 07:44 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

this question starts to trigger me, from swedish forum on gunboards
https://www.gunboards.com/threads/vapen-...94/#post-303008

"The 8x54 Krag conversions are an interesting subject in Swedish firearms history. I’ve included photos of my 8x54 K conversion and a page from the 1939 Vapen-Depoten catalog that describes the specifications for the conversions they would do on customer’s rifles. Below is my translation of parts of the page. I’ve included the M-30 B description of specifications because my rifle matches the various things that were done to the rifle. If I’ve mis-translated any of it, I hope one of our Swedish friends will correct it.

“Conversion of 6.5 mm. mauser rifle, mod. 96, to legal hunting rifle according to the new hunting law of June 3, 1938. A county authority permit is required for conversion.”

“M-30 B. Conversion to a finer repeating sporting rifle. The barrel is shortened {cut} to 66 cm. (other lengths on request), stock is cut, altered to a halfstock and polished, forearm grooves are removed . Military sights are removed and new hunting sights are fitted consisting of a 2 folding leaf sight and new silver bead front sight on a long base. Rifle is regulated at 120 and 200 m.{meters} The barrel is oxidized blued. The bolt handle is bent down and a new sling swivel is fitted to the barrel. “

"

"Perhaps the Swedish members can tell us about the 1938 hunting law that allowed this conversion. This date seems to indicate that Swedish use of the 8x54 Krag cartridge came quite a bit later than Norwegian development and use which I believe dates to around 1920, if I’ve read Hanevik correctly.
This is a scan from a 1935 Vapen Depoten catalog.

"

so it looks again like the 8x54 was an original norwegian conversion for the krag -jörgensen from 6,5 to 8 mm.
but the cartridge was seeing real use later in the 1930s/40s for mauser sporter.

Vapen Depot Falun was a swedish mail order hunting outfitter. I have only some pages of an 1970 catalog that gives you an idea about it.

this rifle have still the original military rear site https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10kHZWUXMUE
whatever the customer wish and was willing to pay for.

(.333 member)

24/02/24 11:18 AM

Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter

Like Muhamad Ali said: It ain't bragging when you can back it up. Well done.

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