Not arguing, but looking for information.

Firstly, I thought I have read a lot of the bison hunting was actually done with .50 rifles not the .45/70? Comments?

Secondly, the comments obviously refer to historical accounts. Where were those historical accounts recorded?

The reason I ask the second, is for verification. Sometimes overtime historical fictions can be stated and repeated and become history over time. I have some skepticism about American West "historical" writings, as the "fictional history" writer and promoter was well and truly already alive in the late 1800's in the American West. When writing "biographies" of famous individuals, events etc.

Not claiming some things are true or false. When I studied history I was taught a very important lesson. Always question the origins of an account, the writer, his motives, his biases.

I have no doubt the .45/70 historically killed a lot of bison.

In modern times, some proponents have marched off to gleefully shoot their modern bison dead merely with the whiff of its modern smokeless powders and ... after several shots, it finally succumbed. Different results to what they expected. And they claim it was shot well.

Reading African accounts, as mentioned earlier, the old time guys weren't exactly "one shot" kill guys, writing about how many times they shot the giraffe or whatever, would shame many of us today.

From my own experience, I am convinced that unless fate is extremely kind, the one shot kill on a big beast requires a brain shot, or a neck spine shot. Even if the beast dies from one shot to the heart or above the heart, it still takes a while to die.

The old one shot instant bison kills accounts seem to me to be a fiction. Unless a bison is some soft creature which its reputation does not agree with.

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Daryl,

Regarding the ballistics. I respect your knowledge and experience in these matters. But the velocities you mention always seem quite a bit higher than I have seen mentioned elsewhere by others. And I am talking about eg Ruger no.1 rifles etc.

What sort of powder charge was used to generate these velocities?

I would think those speeds are also on the higher side of a shortish barrel .458 Win Mag as well.

I have to have a play with a .45/70 case one day. It is such a TINY case in comparison to some others

I do have one, one of those Baikal side by sides, picked up second hand, which needs to be seriously tried out. Hoping your knowledge comes in handy to work that one out!

(obviously not using the loads for a Mauser)