(.450 member)

12/12/09 06:29 AM

CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

2500 feral camels culled so far

Posted Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:04pm AEDT

Local government authorities in Central Australia say about 2500 feral camels have been culled so far near the small community of Docker River.

A marksman began shooting the camels from the air earlier this week after the community complained it was under siege from thousands of them.

Des Rogers from the Macdonnell Shire says the cull should be finished by the end of today.

"I had a phone call at six o'clock this morning saying there was still about 600-odd camels in close proximity to the community and about 120 in the yard there this morning," he said.

"I believe they are going to carry on today so the tally will be around 3000."

He says it has been a cooperative effort to get the job done.

"Everyone working closely together, including the community people, including traditional owners, the Central Land Council, a whole bunch of different agencies, which has resulted in a good outcome."

(.300 member)

12/12/09 06:37 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Is their meat no good for anything?

(.400 member)

12/12/09 09:41 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

is it a slaughter or are they used for leather meat dog food at least something,i would hope if not thats a big stench to deal with and political mess to have to explain out west we have the mustang round up but we would not just blast and leave.all life needs some respect and if killed put to some use.the words chosen are pretty good culled instead of exterminated or slaughtered.like in viet na it was clean ans sweep after search and destroy was not looked on to good.dont get me wrong they did what they had to but you would think it would be done quietly.christ every year they show the baby seal harvest and it creates an out cry.

(.450 member)

12/12/09 10:43 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

The problem is, distance - 1000's of kms from any places over sometimes undriveable country.

Stench would last a week at most. 40+ degrees dries them out pretty quick hawks, dingoes, pigs all have a feed.

(.400 member)

12/12/09 01:13 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

still life is all special just to waste is wrong in my mind and if its that remote the problem is what,no disrespect to Australians but they not do the same to buffalo and now people make a living guiding hunts for them any animal needs to be respected even in the way they are killed

(.450 member)

12/12/09 01:18 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

still life is all special just to waste is wrong in my mind and if its that remote the problem is what,no disrespect to Australians but they not do the same to buffalo and now people make a living guiding hunts for them any animal needs to be respected even in the way they are killed

All animals including culls are respected - that's the law, you can't just go shooting them LR&C and let them be.

Sorry, but you are incorrect in one aspect.

At one stage they wiped out virtually every buffalo up to the Arhnemland border - shoot on sight.

This was to try to eradicate TB and other things so that Aust
could export beef etc to the US and other countries.

Administrator

(.700 member)

12/12/09 08:06 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Too many ferals = lots of problems.

Reportedly we have hundreds of thousands of feral camels, and pest shooting is the only way to significantly reduce them.

Big distances. Arid climate. Rough roads, if any where they are shot. Economics means the meat can not be used or used economically, but hey if you're willing to pay 10x the price for a feral steak, go for it!

Similar culls at other times and places have been done on buffalo, horses, donkeys, goats, deer, pigs etc etc. Roos too are culled and left to rot at several million per year as well.

(.400 member)

13/12/09 02:29 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

why not helicopter drives to penned area or canyons then off to make dog food and leather or feed something they are flying to shoot anyway why not round up and then cart off you are already paying for air time and you did say there was a town there so there must be a road.but i guess its easier to run and gun at least let the military do it for practice before heading to afganastan

(.450 member)

13/12/09 02:44 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

bwana

I've culled Buffalo, and in reality it is damn hard to do it in a location which is conducive to recovery.

Had a pet meater come in with a truck but to be honest,
for all the effort of trying to herd the Buffalo to an area
where the truck could get to before shooting them, I sometimes questioned whether it was worth it.

And we are talking what can be hundreds and even thousands of Sq Kms.

(.400 member)

13/12/09 04:09 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

they use multiple helicopters here to round up wild mustangs they can get low enough and roust them to an area.i dont know your topography so i guess thats not an option and you guys know best you live there.

(.450 member)

13/12/09 04:26 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Topo - generally flat.

Just the sheer cost of getting it to a market,
plus actually killing it that makes it suitable
to human consumption.

(.400 member)

13/12/09 04:36 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

I used to work for a portable Buff shooting works , we set up a Freezeing works with Semi Trailers , the last one or two would get hauled out full of meat , this was human consumption & next to it was a Pet food chain for condemed Buff that had been on the trailers too long , we shot them in 4 to 6 loads & on to the trailers then hauled them in to the works .

The next works was a built works , Point Stuart as I remember , they did round up's with planes I think , and had scrim wings then into steel yards .

Some culls use man made water dams , wait till a heap of goats / Camels now , then fly in and bomb them up !

I think this would work also for a large chunk of Camels too , then have a portable works move with the water trucks .

Not for all of them but a fair few , Camels are a large heap of meat & bone .
The skin is very different from most & would make a good leather I would think ?

One of my freinds owns one of the Helicopter companies that does this work .

Fuel for the machines is one of the problems as it needs to be carted by road to be close enough to do the work , if you have worked with air craft of any type you will know how important the fuel supply is LoL !

(.450 member)

13/12/09 05:03 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Sarg

What years were you doing that ?

(.450 member)

13/12/09 05:38 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

bwana, you might look at it this way. Here and throughout the West we shoot tens of thousands of little buggers; ground squirrels, prairie dogs, etc for reasons I'm guessing aren't much different than those for which the big stuff is killed in Oz, except in scale and obviously that the animals are of course much smaller...

I can only imagine the logistics of meat handling would be immensely challenging, particularly if meat quality must be maintained for human consumption. In such temps, the stuff must go off fast.

Sarg, it must have been a monumental case of "Hurry up and get gutting!!!", yes?

Regardless of the need, my gosh there is no cotton-pickin' way such a government program would occur here. Would be tied up in court forever...no matter how much good common sense it makes!

(.400 member)

13/12/09 06:54 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

yes we do prairie dogs here and it cost us the black footed ferret.now granted we caused the problem we (they) imported them for work or whatever and then let them go as the donkey we started the problem and the eco system pays here in the US its the pigs that are taking over moving north and west there in aus to,we bring things in and screw up the working system that worked for millions of years.but we know what is best for where we live.is the wolf problem resolving ,no,any chace of a grizzly hunt in the lower 48 no,here in florida we have 2 million alligators we get 8000 tags hum that will put a sent in the problem,camels are a nuisance and croc's kill how many people...but cant touch them no no no.as humans you have to admit we really messed up the balance of things,the american buffalo,water fowl,bear,elk,elephant.....and the list goes on.we love to tinker we changed the everglades now we are paying millions to put it back.we keep on fixing the problems and make it worse you wont wipe out the camel you just will have to start all over,all im saying is think of a better way.not just an easy way and i mean no disrespect to haw people manage their game but its ammo for the anti's.do i believe we shouldd harvest some baby seals yes,lambs yes,veal yes...oh hell im just rambling.did they open it to a public hunt or just a few.i dont know jack about camels can you eat them.why not hunt them year round then by the public if they so desire or do they do that already.

(.400 member)

13/12/09 08:46 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Just got back in from shooting & cutting up a couple of goats for Dog food .

500 - In 78,79 I was on "Wild Boar" station ,the NT was a different world then .

9.3 It was worse than that , we had to kill em get them on a trailer & in to the works over rough
terrain in one piece before rigger set in , we had a inspector at the loading ramp who checked
them.

Black animals in the hot Sun !! We had many crashes .

It is a whole story to explain it right .

Camel can be good eating , but I suppose there is a limited market for the meat for human consumption
But the pet food market would be huge ?

It is hard to get at them for the general public , for many reasons & once you have shot a Big Bull or two , well you have done it all really .

Not worth the effort to shoot your own for food , be it yours or your Dogs !

May be illegal to eat your own kills in some States too ?

(.450 member)

14/12/09 02:05 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Bwana, I think you sum up the issue in many ways; yes, humans have screwed up many, many game and land management systems. But to eliminate the bullet as a management tool for simple reasons of personal feelings is ridiculous.

Here we had incredible hunting, understood the ecology of land management and had highly sustainable and productive game and land management units all over the State. Now the criminal Federal government in concert with the Envirus-mental crowd dumped wolves; imported for feel-good reasons and they are destroying the results of all those many years of hard-won efforts of the past. It is a tragedy that will some day be exposed for what it is.

I say if the Aussies have too many camels, goats, roos, whatever, cull them. To remove culling as a tool of management is absurd. If they can uitlize the carcasses, great, if they can't well, that is just too bad. It is their choice and sound management reasoning and economic considerations must be given first place in the decision-making process.

For all the ecologists out their that are rubbing their paws and sobbing, remember, the "best" ecological method would be in theory to leave the carcasses to rot, returning the biological material to the soil. To take off thousands of camels would be to remove that same biological material from the land and in the absence of adding fertilizer, would reduce the productive capacity of it! Yes, that's another way to look at it, especially with repeated removal efforts. Many ways to look at this stuff, isn't there?

Anyway, Sarg, are you saying that in some States a fellow cannot just go out in the bush and shoot some feral critter for his own consumption?

(.400 member)

14/12/09 02:48 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

no im not saying spare the bullet by no means its the mass scale all at once idea i have a hard time with open that area all year buts its the mass culling that upsets the public.a bounty always works then you have all the support you need we need balance but we also need positive public perception sometimes the deeds we do need to be clandestine just for PR.

(.450 member)

14/12/09 03:33 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

I agree about the need for public support.

Oz-men, what sort of public support is there for this stuff over there? I don't think you guys face the same litigious society we do, but are there court challenges to mass culling? Or do people see the opposite as worse, i.e., the degredation that exists when these huge populations are left alone?

(.400 member)

14/12/09 03:37 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

in your eco system what is your major predator not including the croc.dingos seem to small to handle a big job,were there ever any big predators in recent history.

(.400 member)

14/12/09 07:55 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

The government with media help passives the public with stories of untold damage the (insert animal here) will or has done .

I know of a herd of Black Buck that was wiped out , cost a heap to do it & the money would be better spend killing pigs !
One or two were on a air strip the flying doctor was landing on or some tale .

On the hunter consumption in Australia , I lived in NT & QLD , but I heard in other states this could be illegal , the hunter could eat it , may be but not the family or friends , I think it was NSW , need a Australian to clear that up ?

The Oz government does large Deer culls & makes out the danger of Deer + car crashes , which are few , when thousands of Roos smash cars & some times kill poeple ? ? ?

9.3 on putting back the nutrients , this is true in small doses , NOT as some say up to a Million Camels , like 2 to 2.5 Million Cattle in meat mass !

That much at once or in a short time is too much for the environment .

It has taken years to breed up to this number , slowly taking the nutrients out .

(.450 member)

14/12/09 08:02 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

The Greenies want to stop everything - but they are not as litigious as your "can't do" crowd.

And they don't quite have as much sway.

Predators - No 1 Crocs.

Nothing land based for thousands of years in this country
that would even be remotely capable of taking a camel
- and since all the big ferals, camels, buffalo, deer etc were brought here within the last 200 years by humans, you can see where I am coming from.

(.450 member)

14/12/09 08:55 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Thanks fellows.

500, "Can't Do" Crowd...well put!!!

Sarg, yes, a million dead camels...I could smell them from here!!

(Sponsor)

15/12/09 02:22 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

.

On the hunter consumption in Australia , I lived in NT & QLD , but I heard in other states this could be illegal , the hunter could eat it , may be but not the family or friends , I think it was NSW , need a Australian to clear that up ?

You just cant sell it Sarg - that is all...

(.300 member)

18/12/09 03:55 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

What caliber would one use for camel:
- minimum allowed by law
- recommended (OK: found this)
- most common?

There is never a reason not to use premium bullets, but are they needed or is a standard soft point OK? Are solids allowed by law?

What kinds of shooting distances can one expect? The previous discussions on this seem to indicate long(ish). Does this depend on the hunting area, or are they all about the same?

How much does a camel weight?

What about for donkeys: caliber minimum and recommended?
And horse? Not that I'd ever want to shoot a horse (nor a donkey), but I'm curious and walking back from lunch today in -18 degrees I was thinking of potential vacation locations.

- Lars/Finland

(.400 member)

18/12/09 02:58 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

gives a new meaning to smoking camels. and what about donkey kong ,put a little mary on a donkey and go for it i make fun of it but its gotta be nice just to blast away and not have to worry about clean up can nonresidents get in on this.you guys dont have semi's anymore that would be even more fun.but seriously are there outfitters that will take you out to hunt these on a mass basis

(.450 member)

18/12/09 03:07 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

gives a new meaning to smoking camels. and what about donkey kong ,put a little mary on a donkey and go for it i make fun of it but its gotta be nice just to blast away and not have to worry about clean up can nonresidents get in on this.you guys dont have semi's anymore that would be even more fun.but seriously are there outfitters that will take you out to hunt these on a mass basis

non residents - prob not on this but matt conducts cull hunts on donkeys etc etc. send him a PM.

No semi's any more - except by professional cullers.

Just learn to shoot a bolt action fast - 4 aimed and accurate shots in 9 seconds is fast enough for me and 2 of us to wipe out 21 Buffalo in a minute (375H&H's) - which was the whole herd so a semi auto wouldn't have done it any better.

(.400 member)

19/12/09 11:11 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

will see him in reno

Administrator

(.700 member)

19/12/09 03:16 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

What caliber would one use for camel:
- minimum allowed by law
- recommended (OK: found this)
- most common?

Most camels would be shot with calibres in the .270 to .300 range.

Don't know of any minimum legal requirements, some states have recommended minimums eg NSW (not sure if they list camels).

Quote:

There is never a reason not to use premium bullets, but are they needed or is a standard soft point OK? Are solids allowed by law?

A good soft point would be the answer, with the projectile not too fragile.

Quote:

What kinds of shooting distances can one expect? The previous discussions on this seem to indicate long(ish). Does this depend on the hunting area, or are they all about the same?

How much does a camel weight?

What about for donkeys: caliber minimum and recommended?
And horse? Not that I'd ever want to shoot a horse (nor a donkey), but I'm curious and walking back from lunch today in -18 degrees I was thinking of potential vacation locations.

From the usual distances to longish shots, as the hunting might be done in open country. Obviously the less adequate the calibre, the shorter the distance should be, or more precise shots taken.

As for feral horses, they aren't that hard to kill.

(.375 member)

19/12/09 11:30 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Is there any picture of camel concentration?
I should be impresive to see so many camels.
Thanks
Martin

(.400 member)

20/12/09 07:53 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

It is hard to find them really , if you were on foot you would die before you found one & in a vehicle it can take a couple of days , mostly Aircraft spot them & give their where abouts .

Only in strange conditions would there be a concentration like we have heard about near civilization & this is from the Media again !

Australia is a Big Land Mass & there is a lot of Sand ,Dust & Spinfx in between them !

(.400 member)

20/12/09 06:31 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

I shot donkey and horse for human consumption in the early 70's and used a 243.
We were paid 4 cents per pound for quartered carcases.
At that time a drum of fuel (44gal) was $22-00 and a new Ruger M77 in 243 with a Leupold 2-7 scope cost $159-00.

I shot roo's for a living with a 243 and recieved 45 cents per kilogram in the late 70's

Today for every 20 tons of roo carcase,a processor might take one ton of camel carcase..

The logistics of shooting ,processing and transporting camel to a processor is a logistics nightmare with little or no financial return at the end of the process.
SO WHY BOTHER.

Best calibre for camel is from 270 upwards.

Al

(.400 member)

20/12/09 06:39 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Bwananelson:- Australians in Vietnam went on "SEARCH AND DESTROY MISSIONS"

We wern't dictated to by a bunch of fucken hippy draft dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(.400 member)

20/12/09 10:45 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

^ definitely not the "water buffalo" that the VC knew well.

Administrator

(.700 member)

21/12/09 01:14 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

How much does a camel weight?

Our camels came originally from Northern India, and what is now known as Pakistan.

Per Ultimate Ungulate:

General Characteristics

Body Length: 300 cm / 10 ft.
Shoulder Height: 180-210 cm / 6-7 ft.
Tail Length: 50 cm / 20 in.
Weight: 600-1000 kg / 1320-2200 lb.

http://www.ultimateungulate.com/Artiodactyla/Camelus_dromedarius.html

Quote:

What about for donkeys: caliber minimum and recommended?

For some reason donkeys can be really tough to put down, but some thing like a .270, .308, .30-06 etc does the job.

Again no minimum, we so far luckily do not have a lot of "game type laws". Most of our laws are based on - if its native, totally protect it, and if it is introduced, totally eradicate it.

(.450 member)

21/12/09 02:16 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

And while we are on the cull here`s another problem animal.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2009/s2777104.htm

(.416 member)

27/12/09 01:20 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Just a question - would a foreigner hunting in Australia be allowed to get permits to down camels? Just some variety, I'm guessing, in what your country offers hunters from outside in addition to your superb buffalo hunting.

(.450 member)

27/12/09 01:46 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Mehul, not sure about getting involved with culling operations, but a friend of mine has been on a couple camel hunts {along with other feral stuff}. He used a 6.5x55 and had great results.

(.416 member)

27/12/09 03:21 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Thanks, 9.3x57. I was just curious.

Administrator

(.700 member)

28/12/09 12:11 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

Just a question - would a foreigner hunting in Australia be allowed to get permits to down camels? Just some variety, I'm guessing, in what your country offers hunters from outside in addition to your superb buffalo hunting.

Hunters can hunt camels without a "culling permit", just need property owner permission. Or use an outfitter whom has access.

Proper "culling" is done by professional shooters.

(Sponsor)

30/12/09 08:50 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

Quote:

Just a question - would a foreigner hunting in Australia be allowed to get permits to down camels? Just some variety, I'm guessing, in what your country offers hunters from outside in addition to your superb buffalo hunting.

Proper "culling" is done by professional shooters.

Plenty rec hunters and 'safari cullers' might disagree with that distinction JH!! Take what we do with the donkeys/pigs/some buffalo plus groups like H&C and CPM. Very large numbers of animals accounted for...

(.300 member)

30/12/09 10:47 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

I agree with what you say Matt. BUT in John"nitro" Hs defence: he is talking about people (like myself) who are hired by a client, be it a Govt body corporate entity or private person (well whoevers paying really) to do a a cull/control whatever. I think he was merely trying to draw a distinction for the benefit of the folk from outside Oz.

It is very hard for people to realise the vastness, remoteness and low population density of the areas these beasties inhabit.

For the benefit of our non oz members I recommend you check out google earth or similar then check population density climate and terrain and this will (sort of) help in understanding why removal is not really viable.

Believe me, like Alan, Sarg and others I have shot/trapped/Live caught for the pet meat/ HC /translocation markets and at the end of the day it comes down to $$$$ if no beggar wants it... well.
H&C et al do do a good job (contary to some folks view) every little helps.
Hopefully one day we will see a Govt. in Australia that has a tiny wee idea about agame/animal management.....but then I am an inveterate optomist.

Don't get me started on the mismanagement of Kangaroo....

Administrator

(.700 member)

01/01/10 03:47 AM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Just a question - would a foreigner hunting in Australia be allowed to get permits to down camels? Just some variety, I'm guessing, in what your country offers hunters from outside in addition to your superb buffalo hunting.

Proper "culling" is done by professional shooters.

Plenty rec hunters and 'safari cullers' might disagree with that distinction JH!! Take what we do with the donkeys/pigs/some buffalo plus groups like H&C and CPM. Very large numbers of animals accounted for...

The original story was about a gov't culling effort. Foreign clients/hunters would not get a look in, as don't local hunters either. CPM type culls are also as far as I know groups of local hunters.

Foreign hunters realistically would need to book through an outfitter offering "culling hunts" or be invited out by a resident hunter.

(.416 member)

04/01/10 02:01 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

John,

Thank you for the information.

Good hunting!

(.416 member)

04/01/10 02:03 PM

Re: CAMEL SHOOT IS ON

Matt,

Lovely website. Hope to hunt in your country in the not too distant future as a gift to myself if all goes well. That is why I asked.

Good hunting!

NitroExpress.com

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