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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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sparks1
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Reged: 16/03/13
Posts: 54
Loc: USA
Leaf sight orientation
      #241334 - 28/01/14 08:00 AM

Have guild rifle (carbine actually)and wonder if the leaf sight is backwards.

Should the scalloped side be oriented toward the front sight or the shooters eye.

Alignment mark is on the scalloped side of the dovetailed leaf, opposite from the base and facing forward.

Thanks

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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3525
Loc: Colorado
Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: sparks1]
      #241335 - 28/01/14 08:21 AM

See if you can post a picture.
Sounds like it is backwards. Are there no gold
or platinum lines on the leaves?

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DarylS
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Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: Huvius]
      #241336 - 28/01/14 08:57 AM

If by alignment mark you are referring to the vertical bar on the leaf (gold or platinum)that lines up with the bottom of the notch - they should be on the 'sharp side' facing you as Huvius suggested above, not on the scalloped side.

The 'scallops' purpose is to thin the notch's metal to reduce glare produced inside the notch from the surface of the cut. The thinner that surface, the less light/glare will be produced.

The scallop itself will also collect and project light - but since the scallop faces (should be) the front sight, that bouncing light does not effect the shooter.

If the scallop is facing you, the glare around the notch will be increased due to the increased surface area of the scallop deflecting/re-directing light- back at your eye.

The curved surface of the scallop will collect and project light from about any angle behind and to your side - not what you want. If the vertical alignment platinum or gold bars are on the scalloped side, well, that sight sounds as if it is bass-ackwards, to me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sparks1
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Reged: 16/03/13
Posts: 54
Loc: USA
Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: DarylS]
      #241353 - 28/01/14 01:25 PM

No gold or other lines. It's a plain rifle.

Daryl S. What you say makes sense now that I think on it. Mine is then backwards regarding the "scallops."

The "alignment mark" I mentioned is an index mark on the movable leaf for windage and a similar one on the stationary dovetail base. Thing is, if the "scalloped" side is facing the front sight, then the index marks can not line up, as they would then be 180 degrees out of possible alignment.

Not that that matters much, as I would like sight orientation to be correct. Windage may have to be adjusted anyways.

Thanks for the information

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DarylS
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Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: sparks1]
      #241385 - 29/01/14 03:27 AM

Single leaf adjustable for windage - interesting, but sounds a mite fragile for an iron sighted dangerous game rifle - in my opinion, of course?

Adjusting the windage is not something that needs to be an exact science - move it over, shoot, move, shoot - repeating as necessary until sighted in - that's it - done. A witness mark with small sharp punch is then all that might be required, if the sight is easily moveable. Record the load that shoots to that mark might be a good idea if you shoot other loads.

Now, in thinking this over and comparing that arrangement to other iron sighted rifles - note with express sights, the standing sight has a slant forwards to 'collect' light or make it visible in the dark bush - exact accuracy is not important at close range, but being able to see the sight and be 'fairly' close is important and good enough.

This light gathering capability is important for the standing, close range sight - as would be a large front sight that is also easily seen, but for the 'distance' shooting sight, the folding leaf, accuracy is important and thus I feel the scallop or light gathering 'device' should be facing the front sight - away from the shooter's eye.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: sparks1]
      #241406 - 29/01/14 11:10 AM

I agree with what Daryl says in that the "Scallop" usually faces the front sight.
However there are exceptions.

Below is a photo of a Brno ZG47 original rear sight.
It is also a single standing sight with windage adjustment and index lines.

Note that it features a large "scallop" facing the other way, ie toward the action.
Sorry for the low res photo. (not mine)

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4seventy
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Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: sparks1]
      #241412 - 29/01/14 02:31 PM

If the "scallop" is pretty small like this one, it should indeed face the front sight.

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DarylS
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Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: 4seventy]
      #241421 - 29/01/14 05:07 PM

Good post - the large scallop is intdeed not what I envisioned the scallop to be - the small scallop what what I pictured. The large on would not create the glare the small one would.

It is rather obvious a scallop is used to allow a heavier blade, for strength purposes - while the scallop thins the part of the sight blade necessary for clear and precise vision.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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4seventy
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Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: DarylS]
      #241430 - 29/01/14 05:45 PM

If sparks could post a photo or two of his rear sight it would help to determine if it is facing the right or wrong direction.

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sparks1
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Loc: USA
Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: 4seventy]
      #241573 - 02/02/14 03:16 AM

I was wrong...there are index marks on both front and rear of the leaf sight. I'll use my reading glasses from now on.



Here they are....






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Integrity is easier to keep, than to regain.

Edited by CptCurl (21/04/14 09:34 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: sparks1]
      #241579 - 02/02/14 05:07 AM

This sight is in the dovetail backwards - or bass-ackwards - your choice. I would simply, with the rifle held in rubber jaws in a vice, tap the sight out, and re-install in the correct orientation.

Too - the folding leaf should fold towards the front sight, so you pull it backwards to flip it up using the forefinger and thumb that are on each side of the forend. (usually - but there are exceptions to this 'rule' as shown above in the other picture)

I have seen sights with leaves folding both ways as well - typically BRNO and CZ .22 rifles, however their scallops always face properly - iirc.

Note too, how when the forward facing index marks are aligned or almost aligned with the marks on the sight the site is nowhere near centred. That misalignment also shows it's in the dovetail reversed.

Typically when made, the sight is centred and the 'witness' marks are applied with a chisel & hammer - by hand - one blow marking both the sight and the base. Because this was done to both fore and after surfaces of both sight and base, the marks are not perfectly centred as they would have been done by a machine. BUT - if the sight was in the dovetail properly, they marks should line up with the sight perfectly centred in the dovetail.

I hope I didn't confuse this further.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sparks1
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Reged: 16/03/13
Posts: 54
Loc: USA
Re: Leaf sight orientation [Re: DarylS]
      #241591 - 02/02/14 11:14 AM

No confusion added. Thank you.

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