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EDELWEISS
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WHAT is a Stalking rifle?
      #343567 - 24/07/20 09:56 AM

When I think of a Stalking Rifle, I picture a slim rifle usually a Single Shot, but possibly a bolt action in a medium cartridge, like 275 Rigby, 303Brit, maybe 30-06 on the heavy end and something like 243 or 223 or maybe even 22 Hornet on the light end. I also picture a slim but longish barrel with iron sights and a detachable optic with low power (4x max) and a fast recital like a No1 or No4.

I question this because of a discussion that started in the shop today. I mentioned the really nice work done to the Baikal single shot in another thread and said that I had thought about such a gun as a Stalking Rifle project. I said I had considered one Of the Brass or Iron framed Henry single shots; but that they only had 22" barrels.

It was my wanting a longer barrel, 24 or 26 inch that caused the discussion to get exciting. I was immediately met with "Stalking Rifles" should be SHORT with 16 inch barrels. I said that sounded more like a Carbine to me but that I suppose you could have whatever you liked and call it whatever you wanted BUT that a Stalking Rifle had a specific description.

The guys I was talking with have a lot of hunting experience BUT not a lot classic rifle experience, nor do they care to learn about it. These are the same guys that will wear two different cammo patterns and think thats fine because the plastic stock matches one of them....

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HuviusModerator
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #343569 - 24/07/20 10:51 AM

I think you are 100% correct in your assessment.
What your coworker is describing fits more into the “Scout Rifle” pattern.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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85lc
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #343571 - 24/07/20 10:58 AM

The term stalking rifle seems to cover a wide variety of rifles, and really depends upon the user and game.

When I think of a stalking rifle, I think of a rifle for still hunting deer in heavily wooded areas. I think of a German Kipplauf with walnut stock and rust blued metal in a classic German caliber like 9.3x72R which is similar to a 38/55.

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RB


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DarylS
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: 85lc]
      #343572 - 24/07/20 11:26 AM

Stalking rifle to me, means an intermediate calibre - up to about .30/06 - or even an 8x57 or .303.
It would be a fairly light, 8 to 8 1/2 pounds with scope, but long barreled, mildly scoped with a 2X to 4X - or open sighted.

A Ruger #1S with 26" tube in 7x57 would suit me just fine with express sights or (nowadays, a 4x Leuy).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: DarylS]
      #343583 - 24/07/20 02:50 PM

I think the "Stalking Rifle" reference came from the UK.

In England, shooting usually meant shooting a shotgun eg pheasants or grouse. Hunting meant riding a horse. Stalking meant walking and hunting deer with a rifle.

Hopefully nowadays they are speaking English better and hunting means hunting.

Stalking Rifle I think refers to activities such as Scottish deer stalking.

Mauser 98 in .275 Rigby. .303 Lee Speed. Single shots of various types. .30-06. 8x57. 6.5x54 M-S.

I think replicating the concept today is as described. Longish slim barrel. Medium calibre. Light to medium weight. Lower powered scope.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: NitroX]
      #343585 - 24/07/20 03:37 PM

Today, I think of a Stalking Rifle, in my mind, as being akin to a mountain hunting rifle.

Lightish.

A bolt action or a single shot. Kipplauf etc.

A suitable cartridge chamering. It might have a 'magnum' powered chambering these days.

Longish barrel. 24 inches to 26 inches.

Scoped. A modern mountain rifle might have a greater powered scope.

Classically styled. For the type of rifle it is.

A stalking rifle like this, for me, might be a .275 Rigby M98.

Or perhaps a 7mm SEvH Kipplauf.

Or something else.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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EDELWEISS
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: NitroX]
      #343595 - 24/07/20 10:36 PM

Thanks guys, for the confirmation. I knew I was right; but its nice to hear it from guys like me.

I think the problem (well one of them) is that hunting has become all about getting a kill. Theres no more "class" especially in the US. Without "class" there can be no CLASSIC. Im frankly repulsed at the way adults dress. Casual is NOT sloppy!

That laziness has been carried over to hunting. The Walmart crowd has weeded their way into hunting and havent learned from the classics, sadly they brought their content of sloppiness with them. When Gentleman and Ladies used to hunt, they knew it meant pre-hunt preparations and post hunt effort to clean their equipment to ready it for the next hunt. Look to the woods the next time you hunt and youll see 100s of camouflage patterns, which might be OK (maybe); but ask any one of the "Walmart" hunters, if theyd ever heard hunting in anything besides cammo.

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Tom_H
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #343601 - 25/07/20 12:54 AM

Lets not be too judgemental.
I see it as the job of dedicated hunters to set an example for the crowd of folks who may not be as evolved (and in many cases had nobody to learn from)

There is always the opportunity to set an example, whether on the range or in the field.
Living near NYC, with changing times I see that there are going to be opportunities to introduce more people to hunting. In this respect, Covid may actually have made a difference. The other side of the coin is that there will be more people in the woods.

When I was 14, I met a new neighbor who had a G&H .270, carved his own decoys, did most of his shooting with a Citori, and had a Barbour jacket. My father was a deer hunter but a bit more utilitarian. It was good to have a different view of things and it certainly influenced how I approached hunting and shooting after that. Fortunately ethics was paramount with both.

Best US made stalking rifles? (for easter woods hunting) Remington model 7 and Ruger #1 RSI.
(Although I may be adding my Savage 219 in 30-30 to that list)

Good shooting.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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tinker
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: Tom_H]
      #343602 - 25/07/20 01:29 AM

I really like my Thompson Center TCR-83

Set up with the 23" 243 barrel it's slim and light, compact and effective.

It's accurate with handloads. The cartridge isn't overly loud and there's little to no recoil. With the 2-7x33 scope it's perfect for getting things done inside 400 yards.

As a top lever break action rifle, it quickly breaks down for packing out with the quartered animal on the pack frame.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: tinker]
      #343604 - 25/07/20 02:05 AM

My current 'stalking' rifles include a Uberti Model 1876 Winchester Centennial in .50/95 w/28" bl. and a Pedersoli Model 1886/71 Winchester, in .45/70 with 24" bl. Yeah not quite the slim barrels rifles I noted above - oh well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: DarylS]
      #343607 - 25/07/20 02:46 AM

My current stalking rifles.

Restocked customised Parker Hale 1200 Deluxe in .30-06.


Quote:

Rifle was my Parker Hale 1200 M98 with a custom walnut stock, see an earlier thread. A 4x Schmidt & Bender scope. The rifle is a .30-06. The bullet was a 180 gr Nosler Partition Spitzer.





Mauser M03 Extreme in various calibres - 6.5x65, 8x68S.


Mauser M03 Alpine. My barrels are longer, same barrels.



The other one of these, in 8x56 M-S. Sadly not used yet! But soon.



A different one. But I will be using this one more. BLR in .308 Win. Light, handy and very accurate.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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tinker
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: NitroX]
      #343608 - 25/07/20 03:38 AM

John your Parker Hale 30-06 rifle looks fantastic.
Great looking buck too!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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MikeRowe
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: tinker]
      #343610 - 25/07/20 07:44 AM

I looked in the dictionary for "stalking rifle". It said "Fraser single shot".

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Rothhammer1
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: MikeRowe]
      #343626 - 25/07/20 04:44 PM

Quote:

I looked in the dictionary for "stalking rifle". It said "Fraser single shot".




Odd, mine says Mannlicher Schoenauer !

Quote:

When I think of a Stalking Rifle, I picture a slim rifle usually a Single Shot, but possibly a bolt action in a medium cartridge, like 275 Rigby, 303Brit, maybe 30-06 on the heavy end and something like 243 or 223 or maybe even 22 Hornet on the light end. I also picture a slim but longish barrel with iron sights and a detachable optic with low power (4x max) and a fast recital like a No1 or No4.






You, sir, have just described the pre WW2 Mannlicher Schoenauer.


Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 (9.5X57)Take Down Model, scope detached.
Photo January, 1932.

The models of M1903 (6.5X54), M1905 (9X56), M1908 (8X56), M1910 (9.5X57) and M1924 (.30-'06) were light, handy, and quick to the shoulder with svelte stocks that were engineered for 'snap shooting'. The stock cast, geometry, and cheekpiece provide instant and perfect 'cheek weld' for iron sights.



Scopes tend to be mounted with 'Vienna snapper' or claw type quick release mounts that allow for use of iron sights while scope is mounted. Mine wears a Gerard 'B' (4X) scope with post reticle in claw mounts. Removes or installs with one hand, returns to perfect zero every time.




Quote:

It was my wanting a longer barrel, 24 or 26 inch that caused the discussion to get exciting. I was immediately met with "Stalking Rifles" should be SHORT with 16 inch barrels. I said that sounded more like a Carbine to me but that I suppose you could have whatever you liked and call it whatever you wanted BUT that a Stalking Rifle had a specific description.




My Take Down Model MS has a barrel of 60cm (23.6"). It is cased and was sold through the British trade (evidenced by British proofs) as many were. Your friends would surely agree that the stutzen (carbine) MS described on the 1939 Stoeger catalog page below fits their definition of 'stalking rifle' perfectly, though with 18 and 20 inch barrels. Note available options listed at bottom of page including custom barrel lengths:



Stutzen Mauser:



I'd submit that any proper stutzen of light or medium cartridge is a 'stalker', though a proper Brit may prefer one from Rigby, Westley Richards, or such (several MS were retailed through them) and on return from safari or shikar may trade their sola topi (pith helmet) for one of these:


Deerstalker hat

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Louis
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #343627 - 25/07/20 04:46 PM

What is a stalking rifle ?

Let’s go back to the definition of what “to stalk” is; if I refer to my Webster Dictionary (1951), “to stalk” refers to “approach one’s quarry stealthily” or to “approach under cover or by stealth”.

These definitions cover much hunting situations - from hunting dwarf buffalo in rain forest to hunting mountain game and to hunting squirrel, each of one requiring different rifles and associated ammunition.

Most common usage may have narrowed the terminology of “stalking rifle” to light bolt action and to single shot rifles; this may not be correct as, if we refer to the definition of what “to stalk” is, big bore bolt action or double-rifles used in dense forest or bush, combination rifles (BBF, drilling, etc.), bergstutzen-type rifles, and even rimfire rifles may qualify as stalking rifles.

Every type of rifle used to harvest a quarry by stealth should therefore be qualified as a stalking rifle.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Rothhammer1
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: Louis]
      #343628 - 25/07/20 05:15 PM

Quote:

What is a stalking rifle ?

...Every type of rifle used to harvest a quarry by stealth should therefore be qualified as a stalking rifle.

Louis




True enough. Brontosaurus sounds mighty tasty about now... :


Chinese Jingal, .60 caliber.

Here is a post from another 'site (which banned me for posting a harmless 'meme') where their member Gert Odendaal recommends his 'postwar' Mannlicher Schoenauer in .458 as an ideal stalking rifle:

I would use my .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer as the perfect balanced light weight stalking rifle ....although it is a .458 caliber it handles like a light weight rifle when walking the whole day in the bush..while the recoil is great and manageable for such a big bore calibre...to me the designed by the Austrian company hit the perfect balanced mountain /bush walk/stalk rifle on the nail`s head...If I can model all my rifles I still need to build on this design ..I will have a few perfect designed hunting rifles...


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Rothhammer1
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: NitroX]
      #343633 - 25/07/20 06:42 PM

Quote:

My current stalking rifles...






Great photos, John.

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yumastepside
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #343636 - 25/07/20 10:56 PM

This is a " stalking rifle " I've been working on



Portuguese Vergueiro with take-off barrel in 7.65 Argentine in a modified BRNO stock.

Roger

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If you live for a thousand years, you still only have one life, don't waste it.


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Major_Bonkers
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: yumastepside]
      #343644 - 26/07/20 02:19 AM

The history of Scottish stalking rifles is set out in Terry Wieland's book 'Great Hunting Rifles', Chapter 1.

The first stalking rifles were .450 and .500 black powder rifles, and stalkers used deerhounds after the shot to course down the wounded deer, sometimes finishing off the wounded animal with a knife, stones, or - presumably - the rifle's stock. (See: Forty-five years of Highland Deer Stalking by James Henry Corballis). The main problem was that the rifles of that period were insufficiently powerful to kill. That changed with the later development of the metallic cartridge and nitro powders.

First came the Farquarson rifle. These are being slowly remanufactured by Mayfair Engineering for Rigby. The basic Farquarson design was refined by Woodward, which represents the final development of the design. Today you can get the same effective single-shot rifle from a Dakota model 10 - I have one which I bought in the white - the finish was a disgrace - The Ruger number 1 - which benefits from an ejector rather than an extractor - for those of us in the UK, Mark Crudgington of George Gibbs will tart you one up, if you want - Martin Hagn - they seem to be slightly heavy to me - and Soroka from New Zealand which - deep breath - are probably the best of the modern rifles of this type.

The golden age of the stalking rifle was really between the wars. The classic rifles were the Rigby .275 (a Mauser 98 action firing a Mauser 7x57 bullet), the Mannlicher-Schöenauer 6.5x54 (also known as the .256) and, for the stalker, the more utilitarian Lee-Enfield .303. For anyone interested, I recommend John Buchan's 'The Three Hostages' which has an exciting climax which involves two men stalking each other in a deer forest (NB - the term 'deer forest' does not necessarily refer to woodland and can mean open hill ground).

I have used the little M-S extensively although it is fair to point out that, absurdly, it is illegal to use on Scottish red deer (see: Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985), whereas a Browning half-inch is perfectly acceptable. The 6.5x54 round was noticeable for lodging under the skin on the opposite side of the shot, such that you had to be very careful in skinning not to cut your own knuckles on the expanded bullet. It is also a beautifully gentle round to shoot. The M-S action is not made anymore, which is a great pity. Those that come up on the second-hand market are usually shot-through: if you want to buy any vintage rifle, you must check the throat of the barrel for 'cordite burn'.

For those who don't like the jewel-like movement of the M-S and prefer their rifle bolt to slop about like a pendulum, Rigby will sell you a 'Highland Stalker' rebadged Mauser in .275. For what they are, they are very expensive and, so far as I can see, the only British element is that they have been proofed in London as well as in Germany. If you want a Mauser stalking rifle, you should probably sniff about a Mauser G33/40, actually made in and by Brno, now CZ, although (1) I have only ever come across shot-through varieties; and (2) it apparently has an unpleasant kick.

The last of the classic stalking rifles is the Lee-Enfield, agricultural and heavy in its original guise but can be refined in its sporterised version. The trouble with L-Es is that they are like a box of chocolates - some are good, some are bad. Don't buy and sporterise a L-E - let someone else spend the money and buy it second hand.

Edited by Major_Bonkers (26/07/20 07:04 AM)


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EDELWEISS
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: yumastepside]
      #343652 - 26/07/20 05:07 AM

Quote:

This is a " stalking rifle " I've been working on







Ive got a thing for butterknife bolt handles. Very nice!

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fuhrmann
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #343653 - 26/07/20 05:47 AM

Stalking rifle equates the German Pirschbüchse.
The definition is straightforward: it is a rifle, so it has a barrel of decent length.

Otherwise it is not a rifle but a carbine or Stutzen.
fuhrmann


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Rolland
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: fuhrmann]
      #343667 - 26/07/20 03:19 PM

This is my idea of a stalking rifle


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Rothhammer1
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: Rolland]
      #343674 - 26/07/20 05:04 PM

Quote:

This is my idea of a stalking rifle






Purrrty.

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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DoubleD
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: Rolland]
      #343683 - 26/07/20 11:30 PM

Quote:

This is my idea of a stalking rifle





Rolland where did you get the sling? I need a couple of those for my Greener and Hollis Martini's.

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DD, Ret.


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lancaster
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Re: WHAT is a Stalking rifle? [Re: DoubleD]
      #343696 - 27/07/20 02:32 AM

a stalking rifle is a full stock muzzle loader rifle in contrast to a muzzle loader double gun
the rest came later

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