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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
4 Bore Range Results
      #68404 - 31/12/06 10:27 AM

I've recently received my 4 single back from Marvin Huey's shop and have been testing loads with a vengance the past few weeks, so I thought I'd share the results and a few pictures with my friends at nitroexpress as there seems to be quite a few of us bore rifle aficionados here.

Kade Giles at Huey's restored and recovered the case (which was damaged) and did an amazing job. I'm impressed to say the least and greatly admire his skill. He's highy recommended in my book!



With a grand total of 17 rounds fired this month, my results were as follows:

2000gn conical, Goex:
8dm Fg 838fps
10dm Fg 962fps
12dm Fg 1079fps

8dm FFg 945fps
10dmFFG 1048fps

70gn Blue Dot 1068fps

1580gn round ball, Goex

8dm Fg 1020fps

2133gn conical, Goex

8dm Fg 796fps
10dm Fg 905fps

8dm FFg 920fps
10dm FFg 1020fps
14dm FFg 1196fps





Admittedly the sample size is extremely small and there are a few gaps due to chrono errors, so I have some retesting to do , plus intend to add data (gradually!!). My goal is to plot out what each powder, charge and bullet produces in order to see if the 'bang for the buck' is worth it with heavy loads, and to come up with a light practice load. All loads use shotgun primers (Fed209a) in turned brass cases with a thick over powder card and lubed felt wads. Based on the amount of cardboard confetti on the snow today I'm going to double up the over powder cards in the future. I want to use the RB for light loads and the 2000gn conical (.800" meplate) if I ever take it hunting.





The rifle is a 16.5lb 27" T. Bland, with 11 grooves and ~1:100" twist. I believe it is an 1890's gun (thin brass and top lever) but wasn't recorded on the ledger until 1935! Still piecing together the history. I would love to hear any advice, info, stories, etc from other big bore fanatics.



Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

Edited by CptCurl (13/05/11 09:14 PM)

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #68416 - 31/12/06 01:58 PM

What a neat rifle. It seems to shoot as well as it looks.

Keep us informed as to your research.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #68420 - 31/12/06 04:15 PM

Very impressive. With a vengeance, I guess. Some of the other members may not realize just how much recoil you are generating shooting 14 drams of BLACK powder and 2000+ grain bullet. The Ken Owen 4 bores weigh 10lbs more than this old beast and I don't think they are shooting it with black. Your targets show you are able to shoot this gun well. Do you think elephant is very far in your future?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: gatsby]
      #68472 - 01/01/07 12:08 PM

Gatsby, I certainly hope an elephant can be lined up for 08 or 09. I brought the subject up with my wife about a week ago and she's all for it.

I should have made clear that target above was at 25yds, not 100! Those we 2 shots w/70gn of Blue Dot at 1070fps. I'm sure the rifle is more accurate than I am. I've done all of my shooting offhand w/o a standing rest, but can still put the first 2 touching or close to it at 50, after about 3 accuracy (read FLICH) goes down hill. It will hopefully be minute-of-brain/heart accurate! As for recoil, I have a nice purple bruise on my upper bicep today. It seems like the gun comes back hard enough to drive my shoulder back and slide onto my arm. Normally I would chalk this up to poor technique or stance, but I've fired about 75 rounds (so I know what I'm getting into!)through it and 4 friends have shot it too, and its exactly the same every time. I've thought about videoing a few shots to see if that offers any ideas. If I can solve that problem comfort, a relative term, should improve markedly. The gun has a generous butt with a huge surface area; my shoulder is not sore at all.

The incrediblely frustrating issue is getting an invalid chronograph reading when firing an abusive load, and knowing I'll have to do it again!!! I test with a few shots from a 22 pistol after set up to ensure everything is functioning, but still with muzzle blast, BP, wadding, etc, there is a bunch of room for potenital problems. BTW, I just got a copy of Terry W.'s "Dangerous Game Rifles" and think this rifle is pictured on page 23, unless there is another surviving Bland single, which would be wonderful.

Regards,

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #68486 - 01/01/07 11:48 PM

Try moving the chrony back some more. Another thing that worked for me on my 8 Bore is too put up a piece of sheet in front of the chrony. This will take up a lot of the unburned BP and will not effect the velocity much, if at all.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: mickey]
      #68550 - 02/01/07 02:38 PM

Excellent Report. Very Interesting.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: bulldog563]
      #68554 - 02/01/07 03:29 PM

After reading and looking at that gun and the bullets and cartridges, I think I will asign one of my 378s for indoor use in the house

Mike

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: mickey]
      #68557 - 02/01/07 07:58 PM

I'll have to give the sheet idea a try, that's a great idea. Thanks Mickey. I did back the chrono up to 20ft and it seemed to help. I also have a 4x6" piece of pyrex I put in front of the screen to guard against errant wads. I managed to crack it once with a 10 bore wad and also put a dent in the back end of the chrono with one that just cleared my makeshift shield! The lubed felt wads I'm using weigh about 80gns before firing so I'm sure that's enough to send a chronograph to its eternal reward in a glorious fashion.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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Charles_Helm
.333 member


Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #68683 - 03/01/07 04:17 PM

I have nothing useful to add except to echo how interesting that rifle is -- very nice!

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #68685 - 03/01/07 04:33 PM

No kidding-

That thing's really freakin neat.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #68687 - 03/01/07 04:45 PM

Bob,
What brand chronograph are you using? After reading your post I ordered Terry W.'s book and I should have it any day now. I am anxious to see what he has to say about bore rifles or at least have a look at the Bland depicted. I know of 3 T Bland 8 bore singles but you have the only 4 bore rifled Bland I know of. 14 drams, wow!

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: gatsby]
      #69598 - 16/01/07 06:01 PM

Just an update, a few more rounds fired, and a bit more data.

I fired a few 8dm Fg loads, and now have an average velocity of 859fps for 4 shots. Also 1174fps for 12dm of 2F, which was quite an experience! Otherwise I'm working on several new roundball loads.

I moved the chrony back to 30feet and so far so good. As for bullets, I think I'm done with the 2133gn paradox-type conicals as they seem too heavy and the wrong style for this gun (bullet wt isn't specified on the gun, just conical ball and 14 dms). I just got a 1.000" roundball mold on Saturday and cast 2 dozen yesterday (1485gn in wheel weight and 1508 in pure lead). The larger 1.025" pure lead balls would squish into a gumdrop shape as they were sized to 1.007"; hopefully these will bump up ok. I'm planning to try these w/12 and 14dm FFg and 80gn and 40gn of Blue Dot as a jumbo CB cap. I also loaded a couple 2000 conicals over 75gn of Blue Dot but haven't fired any yet. I'm working the next 10 days so it will be a bit.

Data to date:
2000gn conical, Goex:
8dm Fg 859fps
10dm Fg 962fps
12dm Fg 1079fps

8dm FFg 945fps
10dmFFG 1048fps
12dm FFG 1174fps

70gn Blue Dot 1068fps

1580gn round ball, Goex
8dm Fg 1020fps

2133gn conical, Goex
8dm Fg 796fps
10dm Fg 905fps

8dm FFg 920fps
10dm FFg 1020fps
14dm FFg 1196fps




Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

Edited by CptCurl (13/05/11 09:15 PM)

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #69600 - 16/01/07 06:21 PM

Bob,
The pictures are fantastic! Good luck with the load development and the weather.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: gatsby]
      #69612 - 16/01/07 09:58 PM

Looks and sounds like a lot of fun.

What will you hunt with that cannon?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3494
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: CptCurl]
      #69616 - 17/01/07 12:47 AM

"2000gr conicals over 75gn of Blue Dot"

That's gonna feel sooo goooooood!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: CptCurl]
      #69959 - 22/01/07 05:25 PM

Quote:

What will you hunt with that cannon?





Cpt, hopefully an elephant in 08, and possibly a bison later this year. Otherwise I may take it along on a few bear/moose trips as a spare if weather and circumstance permit. I love nice guns but am always paranoid about hunting with them in AK.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26600
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #70071 - 24/01/07 10:25 AM

Pretty much your choice of ball or bullet, Bob. That fireplug heavy one should get a brown bear's attention - or anything else in the vicinity.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: DarylS]
      #79731 - 01/06/07 09:22 PM

Gorgeous gun and very nice accessories! Just a question, have you tried using Swiss? My understanding is that it's a bit hotter and closer to what would have been used in the gun when it was built.

Best,

John

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #79913 - 04/06/07 09:49 AM

The Ken Owen load for his doubles is 112 grains of blue dot in 22" barrels. He is getting about 1450 ft/sec with 2000 grain bullets. The weight on his doubles is about 25 or 26 lbs. What is the actual diameter of you single shot four bore? Very nice looking gun!

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: bigdog]
      #79920 - 04/06/07 11:35 AM

Bigdog, The bore is in the neighborhood of 1 to 1.005". I say "neighborhood" because of the odd number of lands and grooves. I size bullets to 1.007" and that seems to work fine. The few intact recovered bullets I've got measure .999-.998" from a groove to the opposite side. I've been meaning to turn down an AL bar to fit the bore but haven't gotten around to it. 112 grains of Blue Dot sounds like a beast! What's Ken's estimated time for finishing your gun?

John, I'd love to try swiss, unfortnately all I can get in Alaska is goex. Are you using swiss in your 8? That is a sweet looking rifle.

Regards,
Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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JohnTheGreek
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Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #79924 - 04/06/07 04:10 PM

Thanks for the compliment, Bob. I feel your pain with the unavailability of Swiss in Alaska. I was in the Yukon a year and a half ago and couldn't even get Goex. Yes, I was forced to use...(shudder)...PYRODEX! I still have nightmares about dropping charges of that most vile material down the tube.

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JohnTheGreek
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Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #79927 - 04/06/07 09:02 PM

Not to hijack your thread, but here is a recoil photo to put the great 4-bore into perspective. Your photo makes firing an .820 diameter ball over 8 drams look pretty tame eh!

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Plains99
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Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #79956 - 05/06/07 07:45 AM

Lordy! I'd love to have one. Beautiful piece.

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: Plains99]
      #79972 - 05/06/07 01:40 PM

I think Ken is going to get my 4-bore done early. He has a 600 nitro that he is going to do for a guy next. I think it will be nov or early Dec. I am starting to get anxious, even though it is months away yet. I ordered it last October. I am hoping 12 to 13 months total time.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: 4 Bore Range Results [Re: bigdog]
      #80030 - 06/06/07 03:45 PM

Bigdog, Please keep us posted n the progress of your rifle and also on the finished item. I'd love to see some pictures when you get it. Ken is the only maker I've ever heard of finishing a gun early! Well done.

Do you have any hunting plans yet? Have you decided on any engraving, accesories, etc? Marvin Huey also made an incredible ammo case for mine. I don't think I'll EVER need 40rds, but if there is ever a jail break at the zoo I'm all set.

Bob




--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

Edited by CptCurl (13/05/11 09:15 PM)

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