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animalwithin
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Reged: 31/01/20
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Loc: California, United States
Leupold Hate
      #337552 - 07/02/20 05:08 AM

Greetings gents, my name is Sam and I'm new here. Happy to be a part of this community!

Currently in the process of getting my first rifle in honor of my 30th birthday (late to the party, I know) and I have a question about Leupolds.

Having spoken to several optics guys (on other forums), I've noted that Leupold scopes get a lot of hate from that group. With that said, I see many high-end rifles equipped with Leupolds so I'm confused as to the discrepancy between what people are saying and what is actually most commonly found on rifles.

What is the consensus here on Leupold scopes?

*Ended up going with a Swarovski on my rifle but I'm already planning for future rifle acquisitions


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DarylS
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: animalwithin]
      #337556 - 07/02/20 05:27 AM

No Leupold hate here, as far as I know (AFIK).

Leupold have always been the upper crust, until Nightforce and Swarovski came on the scene.

I know of guys who had 2X to 4X Leupolds on their muzzleloaders, who would bring their rifles into the tent on the winter hunt -20 to -40, and plunge the breech and scope into the bucket of hot water to clean their rifles, if they'd been discharged that day. I observed this a few times & must say, it certainly gave me an appreciation for Leuy's. I've only owned one, a 2X, however as they were usually just out of my price range when I was scoping a rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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3DogMike
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: DarylS]
      #337563 - 07/02/20 05:49 AM

Leupold scopes have served me well for 45+ years and continue to do so. They are all I use and I have never had to send one in; now having said that I am not into the tacticool type long range business and dont follow the latest trend in enormous end bell heavy scopes.
So “your milage may vary”.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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93x64mm
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: 3DogMike]
      #337565 - 07/02/20 07:20 AM

Never had a issue with a Leupold scope in nearly 40 years. They've been the middle of the road I guess compared to the high end German scopes for me - and these are worth every penny.
Doing a BGR comp quite a while back now (read suckered into this) an ol' mate gave me a lap at his 500A&M on a Ruger No1 action.
The recoil was bloody horrendous to say the least, known for sailing close to the wind "Lumpa's" loads were HOT! When asked about that little scope, he'd never had it lose its zero - and it did 2 comps that day, straight after each other! And all his rifles get heavily used!
Even have a 2x7 on my 404 - no issues here!
So if you want dependability & reliability I can certainly vouch for them too.


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MikeRowe
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: 93x64mm]
      #337575 - 07/02/20 12:00 PM

We have nice rifles and "claw hammer" rifles (the ones that live in the truck or the corner of the workshop).
Claw hammer rifles here wear Leupolds because they stay put, because when you need a rifle, you need it.
Some guys will complain about anything, like the so called mechanics who bitch about Craftsman hand tools - they've always given me excellent service for what they cost, just like Leupold scopes.

But those are probably the same people who can tear up an anvil with a rolled up newspaper....


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tinker
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: MikeRowe]
      #337576 - 07/02/20 01:23 PM

Welcome to Nitro Express!


I have numerous Leupold scopes here on rifles and handguns, also have one on a 12ga slug gun.

For the most part they've been tough and reliable.

If you are going to be using target turrets in a sport like PRS or some other type of shooting where you'll be making frequent adjustments and returning to and referring to a zero, you might have to spend big on the higher end Leupold scopes in order to get precise tracking and absolute return to zero.
You'd have to spend good money on other brands for similar performance.

Something that I like about the brand is that they still produce some very nice hunting scopes which are compact and slender, which still have the excellent lifetime guarantee that has helped make the Leupold brand a favorite choice for American hunters.

I'll be looking closely at their displays at Safari Club this weekend.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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animalwithin
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: tinker]
      #337589 - 07/02/20 04:53 PM

Thank you all for the replies!

The same guys I spoke to who were hating on Leupold did mention the durability as you guys have mentioned here so perhaps they were just comparing them to really high end scopes.

In general they thought that Zeiss, Smith & Bender, etc. made significantly superior scopes than Leupold. But as you all have eluded to, they are still great scopes nonetheless.

I'm eyeing the Vari-X III 1.5-5x20mm for my next rifle!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: animalwithin]
      #337599 - 07/02/20 05:51 PM

Seeing everyone saying they are good, I will have to be Devil's Advocate and say they are crap!

Ha ha. Not true.

Leupold's are good mid ranged scopes. Zeiss, S&B, Swarovski, Leica etc are held to be higher standard. And usually a multiple price as well.

Tacticool scopes such as Nightforce the same.

A BIG problem and that word is appropriate is these brands are getting bigger, wider and heavier each new model.

This might be OK for jaegers doing all their hunting from a tree stand or hochsitz. Or from a stationary driven game stand. Or for moonlight night shooting.

I know some of our NE members don't mind Leupolds, but can't bring themselves to put one on a H&H or Purdey rifle!

Now if I acquired my new ideal global hunting rifle, a side by side double rifle in .375 Flanged, I want it low power scoped. For longer shots on plains game, precise buffalo herd shots etc. A big 30 mm or 35 mm monstrosity on such a rifle? Awful. And affects the balance. Also MUST be regulated for when the rifle is made.

A 1-4x or 1 1/2-5x 25 mm Leupold would be a far better choice. I know I would prefer a Swaro or S&B, etc but not a huge fat long weighty scope.

I have a Leupold on my .375 at the moment. Another on my .308 BLR. Other rifles as well.

If big bore shooters on NE say the Leupold performs well, it really means something worth listening to.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: animalwithin]
      #337600 - 07/02/20 05:57 PM

Quote:

I'm eyeing the Vari-X III 1.5-5x20mm for my next rifle!




Good choice.

I prefer the German no 1 (or 4?) reticle. The reticle with a heavier post at the bottom and higher and closer to the centre. Two side bars. Usually not top bar. Good for quick, close and fast shooting.

I also like the Post and cross-hair reticle for the same reasons.

These are usually special orders.

I also have the usual "duplex" reticles. Good for small game.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: animalwithin]
      #337635 - 07/02/20 10:59 PM

Hi Sam. Welcome to the forum.

I use to think they were the bees knees until I checked out Kahles scopes. Leupold were a very good mid range scope-at the higher end of mid range. Well times have changed. Kahles like other Euro scope manufactures now have a range from mid range to their good stuff. Leupold now have a range from low end to stuff equal to the high end Euro scopes.

The VX 3 and VariX 111 were very good scopes for the money IMHO.Their warranty is still the benchmark for the industry.

Edited by Rule303 (07/02/20 11:02 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Rule303]
      #337638 - 08/02/20 01:57 AM

Quote:

Hi Sam. Welcome to the forum.

I use to think they were the bees knees until I checked out Kahles scopes. Leupold were a very good mid range scope-at the higher end of mid range. Well times have changed. Kahles like other Euro scope manufactures now have a range from mid range to their good stuff. Leupold now have a range from low end to stuff equal to the high end Euro scopes.

The VX 3 and VariX 111 were very good scopes for the money IMHO.Their warranty is still the benchmark for the industry.





What he said..

I bet I have had or currently own 20+ Leupolds.. I also currently have Zeiss, Swarovski, S&B, and Nightforce... For the money IMHO, there is no better scope.. Have had a Leupold VX3 1.75-6 on my .416 for 16 years..has never failed..in fact for the last 2 trips to Africa I didn't even have to adjust it from trip to trip.. that says a lot when you see how those yard apes throw luggage around at airports.. Saw a gun case fall off the loading ramp in SLC, they tossed it up over the top of the side on to the trailer.. amazing..

Had a Vari-XIII 4.5-14 on my 300RUM for the first 5 trips to Africa and have literally shot a barrel out on the gun in the last 20 years, no issue with the scope..

Have s VX-6 2-12 with Lighted Reticle on my Sako 375H&H... works perfectly.. have several VX-5's on 6.5CM, 6CM and 6.5PRC... again, no issues and track perfectly when dialing for range..

Personally for hunting rifles, if you stick with the VX3 or above, my experience has been you will not have any issues..

I have had to send 2 Swarovski's in ..one was brand new --gave up the ghost on round number 28 our of my 26 Nosler.. other was on a 300RUM...

Zeiss are good.. but as John stated, way to heavy for a carrying around mtn rifle.. AND the lower levelConquest's glass sucks..I have 3 or 4 of them..right now only one is actually on a rifle..in the same price range Leupolds are a far better scope in terms of glass

Recently I attended a long range rifle class in Texas.. they were primarily using NF with a couple Kahles on rifles.. the instructor there stated when asked by a student what he would suggest for a LR scope.. without a beat he said he would get a Leupold Mark 5.. ALL the tests I read say Leupold hit it out of the park with that one.. it is on the upper lever price point but you can always get them cheaper than suggested retail..I was able to look through and use one a couple weeks ago, that will be my next purchase..it weighs considerable less than Kahles, S&B, or NF.. is super clear and tracks perfectly..

Leupold recongnizes the current LR shooting competitions taking place all over the US every weekend. VERY high demand...they are going after that market with vigor.. which only means better and better products for the consumer,,,

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (08/02/20 04:26 AM)


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aromakr
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Ripp]
      #337697 - 09/02/20 10:09 AM


What the Leupold haters might have experienced is the knockoff Leupold scopes coming out of China and being sold on e-bay. A friend just bought a knockoff Zeiss. Buyer be ware.

Bob


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: aromakr]
      #337698 - 09/02/20 10:38 AM

Leupold scopes are well regarded here in Australia as they are price competitive, have a huge range, are generally lighter than the European scopes, still have a range of scopes with small objective lenses and 1" tubes and are the only optics maker in Australia to have fully accredited service center which is operated by the importer Nioa. All that plus a good warranty makes them hard to beat.

For me there are only two negatives, the finish is a little to matt for me, the Europeans seems to be a able to get a slightly more satin finish which in my opinion is nicer. The other is the lack of scopes with a No.4 or 4A reticle which of course doesn't worry the Americans however all my scopes have a No.4 or 4A reticle and I like to keep them all the same. For me that reticle is by far the best.

Obviously those two issues are only my personal choices and don't affect the reliability or quality of the scope in a any way.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Homer
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #337705 - 09/02/20 01:27 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Welcome Animalwithin, I hope you enjoy the knowledge and experience.

Not much Leupold Hate around here Cobber, as they make some of my all time favourite scopes and rings.

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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animalwithin
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Posts: 71
Loc: California, United States
Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Homer]
      #337709 - 09/02/20 01:57 PM

@Nitrox @Waidmannsheil, I too am very fond of the German #4 reticle as well as slimmer scopes, especially straight tube scopes on full stock rifles.

@aromakr, had no idea there were knockoff scopes! Why do fakes have to ruin everything.

@Ripp, I was eyeing a Zeiss Diavari 1.5-4.5 scope on eBay and almost went for that but I couldn't get over how strangely long the tube looked. I did see a Kahles as well.

In general, my search has been for straight tube scopes in the 1X range and for the most part I was looking at older models from Leupold, Zeiss, Kahles, Swaro.

I lucked out and found a used Swarovski 1.25-4x24 Habicht. Seller had it listed on GunBroker as "good condition" and the photos weren't all that great but upon receiving it, the scope is in mint condition. Cost me more than the other scopes I was looking at but I'm very happy!

With that said, I am now sold on Leupolds thanks to you all, and in today's world, durability and longevity is something I can appreciate. Now to get another rifle to justify another scope purchase

Edited by animalwithin (09/02/20 03:42 PM)


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Wayne59
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: animalwithin]
      #337710 - 09/02/20 02:13 PM

I had a leopold that lost an ocular lost of of it. (no I didn't loose a friend did). Sent it back to Leopold and they lost the rest of the scope. They replaced it with a new one free of charge. Can't ask for more than that.

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Rule303
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: aromakr]
      #337721 - 09/02/20 10:38 PM

Quote:


What the Leupold haters might have experienced is the knockoff Leupold scopes coming out of China and being sold on e-bay. A friend just bought a knockoff Zeiss. Buyer be ware.

Bob




The ones that I know and I am one of them in a round about way. The so called hate comes from Leupold devotees that tried to claim the Vx 1, 2, 3 and the same in the Vari X range were as good or better than the high end Euro scopes. Warranty wise yes. Ruggedness some times yes sometimes no. I have known a few leupy's to go back under warranty. Did I say their warranty was second to none. My first Kahles has taken knocks that would rattle a Leupy's teeth. However when they tried to claim the vision especially in low light was better or the equal the Euro's at the time, then no way known. So when the leupy's were said to be not as good as the leupy's the die hard leupy supporters got their knickers in a twist and claimed the Euro snobs hated the leupy's. Then of course the "hate" is blown out of all proportion. Yep there were more than one or two Euro Snobs about that didn't help.

Now days as I said Leupold has the models every bit as good as the top Euro scopes but at the same price points. They still have the best warranty going IMHO.


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9.3x57
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #337723 - 10/02/20 12:11 AM

Quote:

Leupold scopes are well regarded here in Australia as they are price competitive, have a huge range, are generally lighter than the European scopes, still have a range of scopes with small objective lenses and 1" tubes and are the only optics maker in Australia to have fully accredited service center which is operated by the importer Nioa. All that plus a good warranty makes them hard to beat.

For me there are only two negatives, the finish is a little to matt for me, the Europeans seems to be a able to get a slightly more satin finish which in my opinion is nicer. The other is the lack of scopes with a No.4 or 4A reticle which of course doesn't worry the Americans however all my scopes have a No.4 or 4A reticle and I like to keep them all the same. For me that reticle is by far the best.

Obviously those two issues are only my personal choices and don't affect the reliability or quality of the scope in a any way.

Matt.




They do make a German 4A reticle and...I hate it.

It has a "fine" crosshair that is WAY too thick. I can't remember the specs on what it subtends but it's a joke.

I still have two so set up and really don't like them, but wound up putting them on closer range rifles where the thing won't be problematic. For such applications they are not bad, and actually allow fast target acquisition, but what I like in a German #4 is the combination of thick and fine whereby the target can be acquired very fast and naturally centered using the thick posts but if very fine precision is needed, the fine hairs are there for that. Leupold IMO messed up in this reticle design.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ahmed577
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: 9.3x57]
      #337725 - 10/02/20 12:19 AM

Leupold is my scope of choice if my life was dependant upon a scope. I own all the Germans however this is simply snobbery. Thou shalt not adorn a best British with an American scope.

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crkennedy1
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Ahmed577]
      #337728 - 10/02/20 01:15 AM

I need to give my two cents worth on this subject. About 10 years ago, I picked up my first .458 Lott in a Rutgers No. 1 and decided to top it with a Zeiss Conquest scope. Long story short, it beat the crap out of that scope, and I had to send it back to Zeiss for repair and they ended up replacing it.
Enter the Leupold gold ring scope. In a nutshell, that thing can take a beating and continues to hold zero. Just make sure it’s a gold ring. From what I hear, the lower end Leupold’s aren’t as good.

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING


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Ripp
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Ahmed577]
      #337736 - 10/02/20 04:28 AM

Quote:

Leupold is my scope of choice if my life was dependant upon a scope. I own all the Germans however this is simply snobbery. Thou shalt not adorn a best British with an American scope.




Agree 100%...most excellent explanation IMHO...

The Euro models may have been better at one point..that is not longer the case.. They are still living off of the memory of days gone by.. Kinda like Weatherby did for years..then as other calibers and rifle makes surpassed them they got left in the past... Don't get me wrong, scopes like Kahles are excellent.. for LR shooting competitions, etc.. but can do the same with a Mark 5 at almost half the weight.. and frankly unable to tell a difference in the glass..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: crkennedy1]
      #337737 - 10/02/20 04:31 AM

Quote:

I need to give my two cents worth on this subject. About 10 years ago, I picked up my first .458 Lott in a Rutgers No. 1 and decided to top it with a Zeiss Conquest scope. Long story short, it beat the crap out of that scope, and I had to send it back to Zeiss for repair and they ended up replacing it.
Enter the Leupold gold ring scope. In a nutshell, that thing can take a beating and continues to hold zero. Just make sure it’s a gold ring. From what I hear, the lower end Leupold’s aren’t as good.




YES, I have 3 or 4 Conquests.. they do o.k on lighter calibers..but the glass quality sucks.. not nearly as good as a Leupold VX-3 or above models.. Whenever I grab a rifle with one of those on it I find myself looking at it to see if it has dust or fog on it.. and they were not super cheap--around $1000 US...

They (Zeiss)always had rebates on the Conquest models in the fall.. however it would always take -3 attempts to get them to send the rebate.. they did NOT want to pay it.. saw several posts about it on the web as well.. personally I am done with Zeiss..,

Like you, I have had a 1.5-5 and a 1.75-6 on my large bores..have never had an issue.. with lots and lots of rounds through them..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (10/02/20 04:33 AM)


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tinker
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Ripp]
      #337740 - 10/02/20 06:12 AM

Something else to note here, and this applies to all scopes, is that the graduations on the turrets are not always exactly what they are labeled on the knobs.
For instance, "1 click = 1/2 MOA" or whatever.

Whether it's MOA or (claimed) inches or MM or Mils, it's good to verify these grads on a target board that's exactly whatever distance it needs to be from the scope for verification.

If all you will ever do is poke paper targets at your local rifle shooting range's 100 yard bench, fine.
If you expect to be able to make scope adjustments to hit targets at random ranges, you'll need to know exactly what those clicks are doing.

I have compensation factors for many of my scopes, and with them I can range my shot, calculate for drop, and dial in elevation and windage corrections for solid accuracy - as long as I properly use the rangefinder (anyone ever range in meters and calculate for yards..?) and properly read the condition for temperatur, pressure, wind etc.

Even some of the really expensive scopes need a correction factor for the knob graduations.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Postman
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: tinker]
      #337742 - 10/02/20 08:02 AM

Leupy IMHO is by far the best value for money scope in existence, bar none.

Is the glass the best? No. But it is plenty good. Do the turret adjustments have positive clicks? Well, no, they tend to be a bit mushy and don’t feel razor precise and positive (the $1500 MK IV I have is mushy but maybe the newer $3000 ones are better) . Do the adjustments track accurately? Well, yes they are pretty darn good. Is the scope durable? Hell yes! Is the warrantee good? The best in the business, and you probably will never need to find out. Are they one of the lightest and most compact scopes on the market? You bet ‘cha!!!

I now mostly have made the switch to S&B and other high end Euro glass, but I still have a few Leupy VXIII 1.5x5 1” tube scopes as well as a couple of VXII 1x4 scopes, as well as a 30mm MK IV tacticool 3.5x10 scope with mil dot SFP reticle (mentioned above) on a varmint .223 heavy barrel Sako.

I would really question the merit of complaints and whining about Leupold scopes.... They are damn good value for money.

Edited by Postman (10/02/20 08:09 AM)


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tinker
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Re: Leupold Hate [Re: Postman]
      #337744 - 10/02/20 10:05 AM

I visited the Leupold display at SCI yesterday to see if they're still making the 1" tube scopes.
I was pleased to see the Vx3 line still in production, with relatively lightweight useful models in the display.
The Vx3 scopes on non-AO costing at or under $500

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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