Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

Pages: 1
vintagearms
.224 member


Reged: 05/12/15
Posts: 8
Loc: Michigan
I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle
      #274761 - 08/12/15 11:12 PM

I thought you all would like to see this Percussion Hollis 4 Bore Rifle -- I do not know if this would be considered a Howda Rifle it is aprox 45'' total lenght with a 28'' Barrel-- I would like to rum a few light loads through the old girl with a patched round ball ( Any suggestions in that matter )-- vintagearms [image][/image] [image][/image]

Edited by vintagearms (09/12/15 03:02 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3526
Loc: Colorado
Re: I Hollis & Son $ Bore Rifle [Re: vintagearms]
      #274767 - 09/12/15 12:10 AM

I am interested in hearing what you guys have to say too.
I just got a 6bore Rodda and just searching out a way to accurately measure the bore and source a mold is just the beginning.
My bore isn't great so is it right to assume that running a bit undersized ball and a thicker patch carrying more lube would be the way to go?

Vintagearms, are you associated with the Vintage Arms seller in Michigan? You look to have some stuff which is right up my alley!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
8X57
.300 member


Reged: 09/06/10
Posts: 105
Loc: UK & Sultanate of Oman
Re: I Hollis & Son $ Bore Rifle [Re: Huvius]
      #274787 - 09/12/15 08:01 AM

Vintagearms .

Nice looking piece. Would be pleased to own it. To my way of thinking I can't see any harm in running some light loads.

The size of the bore is key of course which will give an indication as to the ball size.

An undersized ball, (though not too undersized) with a good (i.e. tightly fitting) patch should be fine.

Also, Huvius, is your Rodda a front stuffer? if not then slugging the bore should be the way to go as I am sure you aware.
If a front stuffer to my way of thinking if the ball just manages to roll down from the muzzle to the breech and back out again then by the time you have a decent patch over the ball you are there or there abouts. ??!!? Try it with the smallest ball first and then move up (with the rolling thing) until you feel the ball might just not come back then stop and use that size ball if you see what I mean.

Be careful not to go too light on the powder load as that could be counter-productive pressure-wise. (as in too much pressure)

Darryl is your man on this subject methinks. I trust he will chime in in due course.

Thanks for the pictures.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 731
Loc: West UK
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: vintagearms]
      #274797 - 09/12/15 10:36 AM

Vintagearms - Very nice indeed, I spent years looking for one and bought a Belgian example a couple of months ago, less desirable than your Hollis

A nice touch is the double I Hollis trademark (shown below on one of my Sniders), neither of my sporting Hollis' have one

How heavy is it? - mine at a touch under 19 lbs is just handleable

Definitely shoot it, (I have not shot mine yet, needs work on the nipple)

Jeff Tanner in the UK does very good reasonably priced RB moulds to any size (jt-bullet-moulds on internet)
With care you can measure bore and riling depth with a vernier calliper

Huvius - he could make one for your 6 bore if you wished

A patched ball is probably the way to go - Daryl - Where are youuuuuuuuu!!!!!!



The Hollis trademark



Full post is in the Muzzle loaders forum

Good luck in shooting, but a super rifle anyway

TH44


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26521
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: vintagearms]
      #274800 - 09/12/15 11:24 AM

Quote:

I thought you all would like to see this Percussion Hollis 4 Bore Rifle -- I do not know if this would be considered a Howda Rifle it is aprox 45'' total lenght with a 28'' Barrel-- I would like to rum a few light loads through the old girl with a patched round ball ( Any suggestions in that matter )-- vintagearms [image][/image] [image][/image]




Oh YES - that be loverly, big bitch that she is. she is so nicely proportioned. She has very similar lines to my .69.



The barrel appears longer than 28" - what is the pull, may I ask?

1st thing I would do, is determine if even or odd lands and grooves, then to mike the bore with a good set of dial calipers. Get help if needed, or lock the rifle in a vise.
If odd lands, need to measure from corner to corner of lands as closely as possible.

The bore should be .1052" if true 4bore - but anything from 5 at .977" to 3 at 1.158 is possible. I would not expect anything further out than that, however that is not beyond possible.

The first thing I would do is to scrub the bore with Scotch-Brite on a close fitting jag, with something like WD40 as a lube - must be thin. Depending on the bore's condition, I'd do that for 10 to 40 strokes, then I'd dry out the bore with clean patches - more WD40 and patches until they come out fairly clean.

As to size, with such large bores, finding out what the rate of twists are may or may not help. The twist rate probably doesn't matter - much.

I would use a ball (order the mould from Jeff Tanner) no more than .015" smaller that the bore size - land to land. This should give you a ball that is .020" smaller than the bore, with shrinkage of the lead upon cooling. Hard alloys will cast larger.

The problem with trying to use really thick cloth as patching, is the thicker the cloth, the less supple it is, as in canvas material if the ball is too small.


The thicker the patch material, the more lube it will carry, so please, no cotton panty or handkerchief material - unless of course, you include the gusset - eh larcher.

If the cloth patch is thick enough to cause the lands to engrave slightly on the ball (use a strip, seat a ball flush and pull it back out to examine the ball) it may work, but it may also need some form of groove depth sealing card wad between the powder and patched ball to prevent gas cutting of the patch.

You must prevent gas cutting if you want the guns to shoot as cleanly as possible to allow subsequent loading without having to swab or wipe out the bore.

Ahh - that Hollis is a lovely rifle indeed.

All of this goes for the 6 bore as well, Huvius. Ball about .015" smaller than the bore, .020" at most and only for hardened balls.

Note - I'd even try paper ctgs. boys.







I make mine tapered as they then all sit in the pocket, ball down. I glue with paper glue, all seams. The ctg. is then easily grasped and the small end torn off with the teeth, then stuffed into the muzzle- torn end down. By the time you have the rod out, the powder will have drained into the breech. Then choke up on the rod and shove the whole ctg. down into the bore, then down onto the powder. The paper compressed beneath the ball will act as a gas check. The paper wrap around the ball should make a very snug fit on the lands. I was able in my 14 bore, to fire 10 of these with same accuracy as patched round ball, before a cleaning shot had to be made with a light load and very wet patched ball.

Now, the big thing - powder charge?

10 drams would be 273 grains. 12 drams the 'normal' max charge would be 327 1/2.

I think I would start at about 200 and see how much I liked that, then go from there.

I have shot up to 330 from my 9 1/2 pound 14 bore and that was not fun.

With the heavy weight of the 4 and 6 bores, 200 should actually be easier than my normal hunting charge from the 14.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: vintagearms]
      #274822 - 09/12/15 06:56 PM

That's a beauty, wish I had one just like it, thanks for sharing !

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
vintagearms
.224 member


Reged: 05/12/15
Posts: 8
Loc: Michigan
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: Sarg]
      #274827 - 10/12/15 12:09 AM

Thanks to everyone for your great replies -- The gun is aprox. 12 lbs and is marked on the top of the barrel -- Made Expressley For F & C -- Any thoughts on who that would be ?? -- Also -- Daryl S -- Thank you for all your help I will get back with a update -- Rick

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3526
Loc: Colorado
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: TH44]
      #274838 - 10/12/15 04:37 AM

Quote:





The Hollis trademark





Is that the I Hollis and Sons mark or is it Hollis and Sheath?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
8X57
.300 member


Reged: 09/06/10
Posts: 105
Loc: UK & Sultanate of Oman
Re: I Hollis & Son $ Bore Rifle [Re: 8X57]
      #274843 - 10/12/15 05:32 AM

Quote:

Vintagearms .

Nice looking piece. Would be pleased to own it. To my way of thinking I can't see any harm in running some light loads.

The size of the bore is key of course which will give an indication as to the ball size.

An undersized ball, (though not too undersized) with a good (i.e. tightly fitting) patch should be fine.

Also, Huvius, is your Rodda a front stuffer? if not then slugging the bore should be the way to go as I am sure you aware.
If a front stuffer to my way of thinking if the ball just manages to roll down from the muzzle to the breech and back out again then by the time you have a decent patch over the ball you are there or there abouts. ??!!? Try it with the smallest ball first and then move up (with the rolling thing) until you feel the ball might just not come back then stop and use that size ball if you see what I mean.

Be careful not to go too light on the powder load as that could be counter-productive pressure-wise. (as in too much pressure)

Darryl is your man on this subject methinks. I trust he will chime in in due course.

Thanks for the pictures.




I was thinking smoothbore by the way. ! Thanks Darryl for input...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 731
Loc: West UK
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: Huvius]
      #274850 - 10/12/15 10:57 AM

Huvius - Well spotted! I did not think about Hollis & Sheath but it looks logical although Brown's Gunmakers does not give a clear date when I Hollis & Sons took over from Hollis & Sheath

The last date of Hollis & Sheath appears to be 1861 in Birmingham, when I Hollis & Sons took over. Their London premises opened in 1870

This fine rifle could be either side of that date? (1861)

My Snider is later than that, certainly closer to 1870, and there is a Martini posted on British Militaria Forums with the stamp which must be later again

The probability is that I Hollis continued to use the earlier trademark for several years, especially with the "Makers to Her Majesty's War Department" on it, maybe as an extra sales pitch
What do you think?

Tony

Edited by TH44 (10/12/15 10:59 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3526
Loc: Colorado
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: TH44]
      #274855 - 10/12/15 12:42 PM

Here is a good comparison between the 6bore Rodda and my .45cal Pape.
Honestly, either there was a very adhered to standard in the British rifle making fraternity or these rifles could have been made by the same men. I think we assume (or know)that there was a cottage industry supplying the London gun trade in the cartridge era, but was there the same type of work being done in the muzzle loading era?











--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 731
Loc: West UK
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: Huvius]
      #274908 - 11/12/15 10:24 AM

Huvius - The gun industry in the UK was primarily based in Birmingham and most "makers" were either assemblers or even retailers who bought in lock, stock and barrel, or even complete guns/rifles to assemble or even just have their name put on them.

This was certainly the case in the percussion and the flintlock era as well as the cartridge arms

All military firearms were assembled from authorised subcontractors (J Brazier et al. for the best locks), Deakin and many others for barrels, many stockmakers] by government contractors

Some companies, and Hollis particularly, made most of their own arms completely, although when Hollis built/developed their large factory I am not sure

Your Pape rifle is very nice but I am a little confused. The pics of the top of the Rodda rifle has much Nepali? script - is the that the Vintagearms Rodda?

Do you, or Vintagearms mind if I post the pics on British Militaria Forums to see if I can get more information?

Tony


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3526
Loc: Colorado
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: TH44]
      #274909 - 11/12/15 10:40 AM

Go right ahead Tony.
I post over there on occasion but not frequently.
The Rodda is a gun I just picked up from Simpson Ltd.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
vintagearms
.224 member


Reged: 05/12/15
Posts: 8
Loc: Michigan
Re: I Hollis & Son 4 Bore Rifle [Re: Huvius]
      #274912 - 11/12/15 12:19 PM

Huvius -- I think it would be a great idea to forwared the photos -- please let us know what you find out -- vintagearms

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 33 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  tinker 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 4990

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved