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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Loc: Western Australia
PARADOX SITE
      #55477 - 22/04/06 02:39 PM

John, there seems to be a lot of interest in the shooting of bore guns ,paradox's ect so what about a site on NITRO dedicated to these fire arms.
Any body else have any thoughts on the subject.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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bulldog563
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #55478 - 22/04/06 02:47 PM

I would enjoy that section.

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Join the National Rifle Association:
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Marrakai
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: bulldog563]
      #55484 - 22/04/06 04:42 PM

DoubleGun did this a while back, but it has slowed right down after an initial flurry of enthuiasm (mine included!). Those guys are mainly into shotguns though, and I'm sure it would do better here.



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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tinkerModerator
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
      #55495 - 22/04/06 07:43 PM

They're mostly into shotguns, and they tend to simply park any rifle conversation on the common *shotguns and gossip* message board ignoring the specific paradox and bore rifle nook of the site...


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: tinker]
      #55511 - 23/04/06 01:52 AM

If there is enough and ongoing interest of course a forum could be organised. However the Double Rifle OR shotgun forums probably do the job quite well.

Does anyone make a modern paradox today?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

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500Nitro
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #55512 - 23/04/06 02:02 AM


Yes, Holland & Holland have restarted
manufacturing Paradox's.

500 Nitro

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: 500Nitro]
      #55573 - 24/04/06 02:50 AM

In reply to:

Yes, Holland & Holland have restarted
manufacturing Paradox's.



500Nitro

Thanks.

I had a look at their website after reading your post but couldn't find anything.

Any pointers on where on their site they are listed? If they are listed there, of course.

Thanks.

PS Guaranteed to be out of my price range unfortunately.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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gatsby
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #55574 - 24/04/06 03:03 AM

NtroX,
Go to the Holland London site and scroll select a gun for info on the new "paradox"

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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500Nitro
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #55588 - 24/04/06 09:51 AM


NitroX

I only know from talking with the Director of Gunmaking
who said that they were making them. I didn't know if they
had actually made any.

Interestingly, the major knowledge base for loading and Shooting
Paradox's and Bore Guns is in Australia / NZ and has been for
30 years or so !!!


500 Nitro

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #55613 - 24/04/06 05:56 PM

John,spent an hour on the phone the other nite with Marrakai talking about all sorts but mainly about bore guns and paradox.
I am sure the interest is there so why not give it a try.
Make Tony O the moderator .............

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #55635 - 25/04/06 01:33 AM

Gatsby and 500Nitro

Yes the paradox is listed in the menu and they have a sales description page on them. Must not have looked close enough the first time.

Alan

I guess the best way is to start talking about them and introduce threads. They are easy to shift when we reach a critical mass.

I'll also put it to the NE Team and see what they think. Enough lobbying and posts and you're a go.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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vikram
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #57356 - 19/05/06 08:31 AM

The price of the H&H Paradox is said to be under US$62,000.One of the members on a different forum ordered one. Guess, not terribly expensive compared to H&H prices.


Best- Vikram

--------------------
"Routine is death to Heroism."- P.G.Wodehouse

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #57373 - 19/05/06 01:30 PM

John,

Ernie Stallman of Badger Barrels was instrumental in getting Holland and Holland to start building their Paradox Guns again. And the first discussions before Holland revived the idea took place at a BGRC meet in Australia some years ago. The AUstralian influence is very clear though the bulk of recent Paradox guns have been sold in the USA.

I have word from the Internet Gun Club that H&H are working on offering a Damascus Barreled Paradox gun as an option. That would indeed be heaven! They also have Damascus barreled shotguns coming shortly. With companies as diverse as Brno and Flodman making Damascus barreled guns it was a question of time before H&H started making them as well for their super premium clients.

Fabarms make a strange beast with one Paradox barrel and one smooth on a SxS shotgun model though I have no idea why they don't bother with going the whole hog and building a full Paradox gun.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Marrakai
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #57416 - 20/05/06 10:12 AM

Here's a few details on the new Holland Paradox, including pics, posted by Dave Weber on the DoubleGun BBS:

H&H Paradox thread

Dunno why Dave didn't toss it up on their 'Paradox & Bore Guns' forum, which is wilting somewhat...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
      #57502 - 22/05/06 01:19 AM

While I would like to be a billionaire and buy an H&H Paradox, I think for that sort of $$$ I would invest it in a real shooting piece with fully rifled barrels.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #80642 - 14/06/07 10:35 PM

Well John the paradox and fauneta guns have quiet a following on Nitro X and seem to be coming more popular as time goes on.
I'm sure that if all the posts on paradox,fauneta and slug barreled guns were on one site it would be one hell of a reference site.
Please reconsider.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #81031 - 20/06/07 08:52 PM

A new forum "Paradox and Bore Guns" has been created. Please find it using the link above or in the "Double Rifle" forum category.

Please enjoy, and let like minded enthusiasts know about it as well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #81041 - 20/06/07 10:58 PM

Well done, John. Thanks.

We'll try to do it justice!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
      #81216 - 24/06/07 11:38 AM

My PH/Outfitter friend in Zim just had someone take 2 female Elephants with a Paradox with 875gr slugs. Mixed feelings I think from his remarks. Would the 875gr indicate 12gage or what. Don't know much about Paradox guns just what they are. Would they be considered bore rifles or what? Would they be considered adequate for large game? Are they less expensive to build than a double rifle? Why are they being reintroduced? Just curious as all I know is they were introduced by H&H way back when. Do they have some kind of advantage say over a Cape gun?

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Marrakai
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: zimhunter]
      #81217 - 24/06/07 11:52 AM

Zim:
875gr would probably indicate a 10-bore. The usual weights for the No.12 were 735 to 750gr, down to 675 or so for the the hollow-nose (the latter not used on ele of course!).

The No.10 was clearly intended for ele and rhino, according to the H&H catalogues of the day. If that's what the hunter was using, heart/lung shots on female elephants shouldn't have been a problem. If he was using an over-weight 12, that could have raised any number of problems.

BTW, only the No.12 is being reintroduced by Hollands. We have the perfect requirement for such a gun here in Australia's 'Top End', where the hunting reserves are closed to centre-fire rifles during the 4-month goose season, on account of all the shotgunners wandering around the edges of the wetlands. Our wildlife managers are happy to regard the Paradox as a shotgun, so we can still use them to hunt feral hogs on the reserves during the dry season.

A proper Paradox is better than a cape gun if you are hunting waterfowl exclusively for a while, say, during the morning or evening flighting, then switch to 4-legged quarry during the day. If you are sneaking around the swamps where the next second, either a bird or a boar could erupt from cover, you may do quite well with a cape gun. Remember that a Paradox can be loaded as a cape gun, too, with a solid in one chamber and shot in the other, much more versatile than a cape.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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gatsby
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
      #81219 - 24/06/07 12:06 PM

Marakai,
You are right in your speculation on the weight of 10 bore paradox slugs. 875 to 950 grain. However in this case I am speculating that this individual is using a 12 bore. I have a friend hunting elephant over the last couple of weeks with a 12 drilling with paradox barrels. He had settled on a load using an 875grain bullet. There are several unique features of the gun and load which may be the subject of an article in an upcoming DGJ. He had shot lion last year with the gun and conducted some terminal ballistic info at that time which has lead to this hunt.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



Edited by gatsby (24/06/07 12:09 PM)

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zimhunter
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: gatsby]
      #81272 - 25/06/07 07:05 AM

Marrakai,
Thanks for the information, I had really considered Paradox guns merely antiques or relics with rather few applications today. I'll have to get some more information and read up on them in a little more depth. In all my years of playing with guns they were merely an oddity.

Edited by zimhunter (25/06/07 07:07 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
      #81326 - 26/06/07 11:51 AM

Quote:


A proper Paradox is better than a cape gun if you are hunting waterfowl exclusively for a while, say, during the morning or evening flighting, then switch to 4-legged quarry during the day. If you are sneaking around the swamps where the next second, either a bird or a boar could erupt from cover, you may do quite well with a cape gun. Remember that a Paradox can be loaded as a cape gun, too, with a solid in one chamber and shot in the other, much more versatile than a cape.



Marrakai

In your search for a paradox, have you ever considered converting one of your existing Greener sets of barrels into a paradox set of 12-bores? ie to be used with your Greener .577 S/S?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
      #81341 - 26/06/07 07:21 PM

Absolutely. I still have those Shaw rifled 12-bore barrels, and was discussing this very subject (with barrels in hand!) with Vic P_ last week. There are a few unknowns with those barrels, ie rifling is only 5 thou deep, and the .719/.729 bore/groove dimensions will not allow much choke to remain if I ream the bores to .735 to fit my mold. Also, the Shaw tubes will clean up at around 24 1/2 inches which is fine for a bore-gun but too short for a 'pukka' Paradox.

I'm getting pissed off with seeing those tubes just sitting around though, and will probably do something soon. Because they are so thick at the breech ends, I'm toying with the idea of making them up with a dove-tail lump, so I can keep the original shotgun barrels. That was the main subject discussed with Vic.



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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watto
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Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
      #81346 - 26/06/07 11:41 PM

G'day Marrakai,

can you suggest somebody that can do the Paradox conversion. As I have mentioned before I have a sxs 12bore that I purchased with the intention of using it for a DR conversion, but I would be interested
at looking at the Paradox option.

Ian.

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