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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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lancaster
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a boy's rifle
      #377372 - 18/06/23 05:03 AM

bought a muzzle loader last week ...






because it was offer to be a 8 mm caliber and it was made in the style I prefer. having a .314 and a .330 mould so I thought one would fit. its one of those rare small bore maybe made as a boys rifle and no doubt its a very late made muzzle loader.
I would say between 1860 and maybe 1875-78 when they come out of fashion for the next hundred years.



looking good on the first view but there a things to be done before it can be shoot










comparison with a 12 ga shell shows how small it was build



the screw is broken - tig welding



the tip here is broken off - tig welding



the extension of the breech plug was welded before but looks not right at all - tig welding will do the job again






the nipple is broken too, will see if I get a new one that fits. have to build a tool to get it out.
and a long wad hook to get out what is in the barrel now. could be some dirt, could be a forgotten load.
we will see!




here with the dreyse lady's rifle, a similar short range target gun





those were the days iron triggerguard and a grip made from horn



with the dreyse small bore 9,5 mm and 7,8 mm roundball


a 7,8 mm roundball, this was sowjet made buckshot for reloading shotshells I bought 1992 in Tallin/Estonia because it was dirt cheap and I would need it maybe one day.



I think the rifle was made for a low load, maybe 15 grains of black powder maximum but you can shoot it also with 5 grains and a round ball very cheap. it was before air guns became realy popular for such shooting.
for indoor target shooting I would like to use only the powder load and a roundball so don't have a glowing wad laying around any time.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: a boy's rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #377374 - 18/06/23 06:18 AM

Perfect fit with the buckshot Lancaster!
Certainly seen a bit of neglect at the muzzle, but you would expect that from a young boy forgetting to clean after a session or 2!
Hope it shoots alright after a bit of your TLC.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #377421 - 20/06/23 04:42 PM



A meticulously well organised German work bench! Everything immediately at hand.

Ha ha. Don't worry, only joking, when taking photos I try to use some barrier to hide my junk. Don't worry, you're a genius fiddler and fixed to me.

I like that little muzzle loader.

I wonder what it's original purpose was? A young boy's rifle as suggested? Or shooting squirrels and sparrows?


***

Back to the bench, my failed ambition is always to be the super organised tidy neat structured storer ... I will always fail in my ambition, the opposite, a pile of piles of junk to search through. But the joy when one discovers some long lost forgotten treasure!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (20/06/23 04:47 PM)

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8730
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #377462 - 22/06/23 04:22 AM

Quote:


A meticulously well organised German work bench! Everything immediately at hand.







this are a few things I need every day so allways have them at hand

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39247
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #377473 - 22/06/23 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:


A meticulously well organised German work bench! Everything immediately at hand.







this are a few things I need every day so allways have them at hand



Excellent. I need everything in sight so I remember it exists.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8730
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #382848 - 26/02/24 02:46 AM

got it back from the gunmaker, tig welded here and there and the nippel is out. have two now, one for small and one for musket primer and will use both.
maybe the old nippel will be going back, tig welded in place and serve as a bushing with a thread inside for the new nippels.










bore is smooth and smaller than I thought - only 6,9 mm.






still some work to do

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylSModerator
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #382853 - 26/02/24 04:06 AM

.27" is the smallest shotgun bore I've heard of.
000 buckshot and a cloth patch, I guess. (here, Hornady 000 is .250", not the normal 000 at .360")

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #382859 - 26/02/24 05:46 AM

was not a shotgun but a "smooth bore rifle", see the iron sights. it may work well for a boy to shoot at 25 meter on a target. I will try to press a spitzer bullet from airgun pellets and shoot it with a berdan primer in the hollow base but without powder.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #382863 - 26/02/24 07:19 AM

Quote:

was not a shotgun but a "smooth bore rifle", see the iron sights. it may work well for a boy to shoot at 25 meter on a target. I will try to press a spitzer bullet from airgun pellets and shoot it with a berdan primer in the hollow base but without powder.



Will turn it into an 'air'gun then mate!

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DarylSModerator
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: 93x64mm]
      #382868 - 26/02/24 11:19 AM

Those nipple threads look about toasted.
Here in NA, smoothbores with rifle sights, were called smooth rifles & ordered as such throughout the 1800's, by stores in the West, so there was a demand.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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MikeRowe
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #382872 - 26/02/24 01:47 PM

Many years ago I built a couple of .25 caliber squirrel rifles - barrel by Bobby Hoyt on one, and Ed Rayl on the other one. Shallow (about 6 thou) round bottom rifling and about 48" twist.

Shot Hornady #4 buckshot .240" diameter with 17.5 grains of 3Fg powder. Sounds awfully scientific, but that's what a K-Hornet case holds, and it's a convenient powder measure.

No problem to put 3 shots touching at 25 yards - that's minute of squirrel eyeball. It was nice back then - I could see the sights!

The 20th shot with no cleaning between would go down the barrel as easily as the first, on either of those rifles. And that little 19 grain round ball sure did crack. Would go right through a squirrel's body at 40 yards.

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lancaster
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: 93x64mm]
      #382880 - 27/02/24 04:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

was not a shotgun but a "smooth bore rifle", see the iron sights. it may work well for a boy to shoot at 25 meter on a target. I will try to press a spitzer bullet from airgun pellets and shoot it with a berdan primer in the hollow base but without powder.



Will turn it into an 'air'gun then mate!



not realy, still hot air. such loaded bullets were common for indoor shooting in the 1850s/60s.
the bullets were fired by a needle but I think why not starting with a common primer from outside.



left is a 4,5 mm airgun pellet for comparison

another system had a screw you turn out and set a primer in a paper hull into









--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylSModerator
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #382881 - 27/02/24 05:02 AM

An "enclosed" system using a primer should work, somewhat.
The grossly hollow based bullets, nose heavy like a Foster slug, would be necessary, without rifling. That might be a problem.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #382887 - 27/02/24 05:41 AM

this are the same bullets used for the common smooth bore airguns of the time but with a primer in the base.









I know a dandy/airgun collector who take the liberty to outshot other guys with modern airguns for fun on competitions using a vintage smooth bore and original spitzer bullets or "spitzkugeln".
it not enough to compete with the first line but they shoot so good you can win against the common shooter with modern material.
he say its fun to watching them when he comes with his over hundred years old airguns,laughing when they see what it is. this stops when he shoot better then the other guys.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #382890 - 27/02/24 07:09 AM

With a smooth bore & no rifling to spin these tiny projectiles you would think they would fly all over the place
"I know a dandy/airgun collector who take the liberty to outshot other guys with modern airguns for fun on competitions using a vintage smooth bore and original spitzer bullets or "spitzkugeln".
it not enough to compete with the first line but they shoot so good you can win against the common shooter with modern material.
he say its fun to watching them when he comes with his over hundred years old airguns,laughing when they see what it is. this stops when he shoot better then the other guys."

Obviously not!!!
Great to hear these old veterans are still going strong - both lots!

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DarylSModerator
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Re: a boy's rifle [Re: 93x64mm]
      #382905 - 27/02/24 10:57 AM

Yes, it is. Were the bullets solid, they would be grossly inaccurate.
The hollow based projectiles fly quite well at normal for today air rifle ranges, especially indoors, where most shooting is 10 meters or closer.
Foster slugs do quite well at close to intermediate ranges.
In some guns, like my rifled Mossberg, they also do very well in rifled barrels, but usually not so.
The standard pellet of today, will shoot reasonably well from a smoothbore, due to the shuttlecock effect of the pellet.
As the velocities get higher, spin must be incorporated as well, to maintain even better accuracy.
Most modern air rifles have rates of twist faster than needed for this purpose.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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