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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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Ripp
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Loc: Montana, USA
8mm Mauser and other 8mm's...
      #335562 - 17/12/19 04:14 AM

The 8mm Mauser and other 8mm cartridges are deadly accurate and versatile as a Swiss Army knife. So, why are they virtually unknown in the U.S.?

Why Didn't The 8mm Mauser Make It In The U.S.?

It didn't realy do anything the .30-06 wasn't capable of.
Historically, there's been a lack of bullet weight options.
The bullet diameter change (.318 to .323) years ago confused many shooters.
Some might think success in life is all about who you know.

The same could be said for rifle calibers. Some cartridges ought to be more popular. Case in point—the mighty 8mm Mauser.

Like many successful American cartridges, the German-created 7.92x57mm owes its beginning to the military. (Notice that I didn’t say, “8mm Mauser.”)

8mm Mauser 4
The 8mm caliber has a wide range of cartridges using it because it was developed in the late 1800s. Here, we can compare the relatively mild 8mm Mauser 198-grain load to a 8mm Remington Magnum 200-grain load. The 8mm Mauser is its own case, and the 8mm Remington Magnum was developed from the .375 H&H case.
According to Norma, “The designation, ‘Mauser,’ is actually a misnomer, because the cartridge was developed by a German military commission at Spandau Arsenal for a forerunner of the famous Mauser rifle, which was adopted in 1898.”

Of course, the Swedish ammunition company is right. In 1888, the German Rifle Testing Commission did develop what we commonly call the 8mm Mauser. SAAMI calls it the 8mm Mauser or the 8x57mm, and the European C.I.P. calls the 7.92x57mm the 8×57 IS (which is precisely what’s stamped on the barrel of the brand-new Sauer 100 Classic on loan to me for this story).

Back then, however, it was simply called Cartridge 88 or Patrone 88. You might even know it as the M/88. Regardless, the octo-millimeter pushed a massive .319 (groove)-caliber, 225-grain bullet at 2,000 fps down a lanky, 29.1-inch barrel. In 1888, that was impressive.

By April 1903, the Germans had tweaked the M/88 quite a bit. In 1894, they changed the original .319-inch diameter to .323 to improve the cartridge’s accuracy and reduce barrel wear. It worked. The Germans had figured out that a more aerodynamic bullet that was also lighter flew better than the 225-grain, round-nosed bullet.

8mm Mauser 5
After World War II, there were a lot of Mauser 98 actions available in the United States, with many chambered in 8mm Mauser. While 8mm Mauser ammunition could be found, it was rare, so resourceful Americans rechambered their 8mm Mausers to use the .30-06 Springfield case, and the 8mm-06 wildcat was born. The Interarms X action shown here—actually an 8mm-06 Improved—was built by Zastava of Serbia and imported into the United States under the Interarms X name. It’s a large-ring Mauser 98 action copy and a favorite of many collectors.
As a result, they started loading the 7.92x57mm with a 153-grain, spire-point bullet and created a new gunpowder as well. These changes also worked and, by 1904, the M/88 had evolved into the lighter, faster, longer-lasting 7.92x57mm Mauser S.

“The ‘J’ in the name stands for ‘Infanterie.’ The ‘J’ is due to a mistake resulting from the previous use of gothic letters in Germany and has no significance regarding bullet size. But, in 1905, the German army switched from a round-nosed, 226-grain bullet to a 154-grain, pointed boattail bullet. At the same time, the diameter of the bullet was altered from .318 inch to the present standard of .323 inch. Accordingly, the ‘S’ (for ‘Spitzer’) means that the barrel is made for .323-inch bullets.”

German Engineering Genius
How good was the new 7.92x57mm Mauser S? Not only did the Germans use it during World War II, so did the Polish, the Chinese … and the British. A bloody 8mm? Yes! They used in it their Besa machine guns. And who could blame them?

Say what you will about the politics of the German war machines of yesteryear, there’s no denying their engineering genius.

8mm Mauser 6
The Sauer 100 Classic chambered in 8×57 IS and the Interarms X custom rifle chambered in 8mm-06 Improved are two examples of how the 8mm Mauser has remained relevant in today’s highly competitive hunting and shooting market. Both cartridges can handle heavy bullets, with the 8mm-06 Improved giving the .323-caliber bullets a bit more speed. The far more common .30-06 Springfield case makes handloading the 8mm-06 relatively simple and is a great choice for new handloaders who want to enjoy a wildcat cartridge.
Case in point: Back in 1933, the German army understood long-range shooting, because it fed its 8mm-armed snipers 198-grain bullets with a ballistic coefficent of .593 (G1), which is so aerodynamically slick that it would make today’s PRS shooters wet their pants. The 7.92x57mm, loaded with the 198-grain bullets, gave the German army arguably the best performing standard rifle bullet of World War II.

One would think a cartridge with that kind of pedigree would have a bigger following in the United States. I do realize that if my only exposure to a cartridge were via it being shot at me, I wouldn’t like it, no matter how well designed it was. Thus, I can forgive America’s Greatest Generation for snubbing its nose at the 8mm Mauser. Still, there are plenty of other reasons the 8mm Mauser (and, honestly, all 8mm-caliber cartridges) doesn’t do well here.

“In my opinion, the 8mm never really thrived in the United States because it didn’t really do anything the .30-06 wasn’t capable of doing,” said Zach Waterman of Nosler Ammunition. “The .30-06 was also the cartridge most members of the military were familiar with at the beginning of the last century; and, in my experience, people generally stick to what they know.

“I believe another limitation of the 8mm Mauser is the lack of bullet weight options that also have relatively low BCs. Nosler offers 180- and 200-grain bullet weight options, and that’s it. Compare that to the ubiquitous (and more powerful) 338 Win. Mag., which has bullet weight options ranging from 180 to 300 grains, making this cartridge more appealing to a broader demographic.”

8mm Mauser 8
The 8mm Mauser is still very popular worldwide. Here, we see a factory box of Prvi Partizan 198-grain 8x57mm JS full-metal-jacket ammunition used for long-range shooting.
Waterman is mostly correct. However, the 8mm—specifically, the .323-caliber—is a little more popular than just the two bullets he mentioned.

MidwayUSA lists 34 different bullets you can reload. The most popular is Nosler’s 180-grain Ballistic Tip, followed by Hornady’s clever 170-grain SST and Nosler’s do-it-all 200-grain AccuBond. Folks who roll their own ammunition can find bullets ranging from 150 grains all the way up to 250 grains. The most popular bullet weight to manufacture for the .323 8mm is, by far, the 200-grain variety, because MidwayUSA lists no fewer than nine of them for sale. Need a high-BC bullet? Some of the 8mms have BCs as high as the .520s.

Duane Siercks, the lead ballistics technician at Sierra, agreed with Waterman and expands his opinion about the less-popular 8mm-caliber for Americans: “The bullet diameter change (.318 to .323) years ago really confused a lot of shooters. The .30-06 was able to outperform the 8×57. The wildcat 8mm-06 probably did as much for the 8mm as anything.”

The 8mm-06
So, what is an 8mm-06, and why does it exist?

8mm Mauser 3
The 8mm Mauser inspired plenty of wildcats; one of the most popular is the 8mm-06 and its peppier 8mm-06 Improved version. On the left is an unfired 8mm-06 with a Hornady 150-grain Interlock bullet loaded with IMR 4064 powder. On the right is the fire-formed “improved” case with a 40-degree shoulder, which added as much as 5 percent more powder capacity. The 8mm-06 Improved cartridges were fire-formed in a custom-built Zastava-built Interarms X-based rifle owned by the author.
After World War II, there were a lot of surplus Mauser rifles available in 8x57JS in the United States. While Mauser rifles were plentiful, 8x57JS ammunition was not. However, Americans quickly figured out how to make 8x57JS ammunition from .30-06 Springfield cases. Wildcatters then figured out that simply necking-up a .30-06 Springfield case to accept the 8mm bullet gave Americans a robust cartridge. The 8mm-06 outperformed the 8x57JS by as much as 200 fps and up to 50 fps faster than equivalent .30-06 Springfield loads.

I own an Interarms X-based custom rifle chambered in 8mm-06 Improved, which adds an honest 1 to 3 percent increase in velocity over the 8mm-06. So, I’m pushing a 200-grain Nosler Partition out of my 24-inch, 8mm-06 Improved barrel at about 2,800 fps. That will do just fine for anything in North America and most things everywhere else. In addition, I can get .30-06 Springfield brass everywhere, and I have a set of custom 8mm-06 Improved reloading dies from Redding.


Nevertheless, the 8mm-06 isn’t the only .323-caliber cartridge still breathing, however faintly, in the United States. The 8mm Remington Magnum and the much newer .325 WSM top the list of 8mm cartridges that Americans use enough of to register sales these days.

“Nosler only offers three 8mm offerings—the 8×57 JS Mauser, .325 WSM and 8mm Rem. Mag., with the .325 WSM being the most popular by a large margin,” said Waterman. “The .325 WSM came out of the gate with a lot of momentum after it was introduced along with the other WSMs, so I think there are a lot of rifles chambered in that cartridge. But not a lot of ammunition offerings are available for those folks, which keeps our ammo sales for that cartridge pretty strong. I’ve personally taken the .325 WSM to Africa, and it performed perfectly on all the plains game I was after. I’ve also seen it shine in the tundra of northern Canada on caribou. My 8mm bullet-of-choice and our most popular offering is the 200-grain AccuBond. If you’re looking for .338 Win. Mag. performance in a short-action, it’s hard to beat the .325 WSM shooting a 200-grain AccuBond.”

Yes, the .325 WSM has helped resurrect the 8mm today—much as the 8mm-06 did after World War II. In fact, the WSM craze a few years ago that spawned the .325 WSM was revolutionary to 8mm-caliber bullet-lovers, because it inspired bullet manufacturers to pay attention to the 8mm again.

8mm Mauser 2
The 8mm Remington Magnum is a spectacular big-game cartridge that delivers substantial energy for .323-caliber fans. Here, the 200-grain Swift A-Frame bullet is factory loaded by Remington to give shooters 3,734 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. The 8mm Remington Magnum is a violent cartridge with a significant amount of recoil … and limited fans across the globe.
Newer, better bullets help any caliber, and the 8mm wasn’t any different—with better-built bullets offering high-speed terminal performance and less drag for flatter, faster flights toward the shooter’s intended target. The 8x57JS crowd can, and have, taken advantage of the technology applied to 8mm bullets these days.

According to Siercks, the popular 8mm bullets for them are the 150 and 175 SPTs. “The 8×57 will always have a loyal following. With 150-grain bullets for deer and 175 for elk-sized game, it is a solid performer. The .325 gives considerable ballistic advantage without the punishing recoil of the 8mm Rem. Mag. The .325 is certainly capable of harvesting all but dangerous game.”

Still, in America, the 7mm and .30-caliber bullets reign supreme. Even so, don’t ignore the mighty 8mm-caliber.

Waterman pointed out, “I’ve seen 7mm and .30-caliber bullets do some impressive things in the field, but the 8mm has more frontal surface area and, in my opinion, hits like a Mack truck. It might not possess the higher BCs the 7mm and .30-caliber bullets have, but for distances of 400 yards and in, that’s not really a concern anyway. Flatter trajectories can be achieved with the 8mm options; 9.3s simply don’t have the velocities behind them that the 8mms have.”


Ballistic Coefficients
Let’s take a closer look at the BCs of 8mm bullets compared to similarly weighted .30-caliber bullets. The 8mm (.323) 180-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip gives shooters a ballistic coefficient (BC) (G1) of .394 and a sectional density (SD) of .247. The equivalent .30-caliber Nosler Ballistic Tip gives a BC of .507 and an SD of .271. This one is no contest with the .30-caliber, leaving the .323-caliber, 180-grain bullet in the dust.

Let’s move up to 200-grain AccuBonds. The .323-caliber, 200-grain AccuBond has a BC of .450 and SD of .274. The .30-caliber, 200-grain AccuBond has a BC of .588 and SD of .301. Again, the .30-caliber bullet blows the ballistic doors off the 8mm bullet.

Let’s go bigger: How does the 8mm bullet fare against the popular .338-caliber bullets?

The 8mm (.323) 180-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip gives shooters a ballistic coefficient (BC) (G1) of .394 and SD of .247, whereas the .338-caliber bullet weighing 180-grainers falls short of the .323-caliber with a BC of .372 and SD of just .225. When comparing Nosler AccuBond 200-grainers, the 8mm does better with a BC of .450 and SD of .274, versus the .338-caliber, 200-grain BC of .414 and SD of .250.

Simply put: Physics can’t be denied. The .323-caliber bullets fall ballistically right in between the .30-caliber and .338-caliber bullets— a big “duh” there, folks. Ballistically speaking, it is cursed with what some of us know to be the dreaded “middle child syndrome.”

According to Siercks, “The 8mm cartridges are great for all medium-sized game, but I cannot say they are better than 9.3mm or 30-caliber. Their nearest rival would probably be .35-caliber for performance.”

In the end, does the 8mm Mauser—and, more specifically, the 8mm caliber—do anything better than its more popular American calibers to the north and south of its size?
“Not in my opinion,” said Waterman. “I think that’s the very reason it hasn’t taken off in the United States.”

Even so, this Oregon-based bullet PR representative did offer some advice about how to make the .323-caliber relevant: “The only thing I can think of is to reinvent the caliber with faster twist rates and longer, high-BC bullet offerings. That definitely seems to be the trend with folks who are looking to improve upon what they already have.”

The bottom line? The 8mm Mauser and the rest of the .323-caliber cartridges will never be voted “most popular” in the ballistics yearbook then, now or in the future. It will, however, give any caliber a run for its money in another category—”most likely to succeed”—because the 8mm has been, and always will be … enough.

Editor's Note: This article originally appeared in the September 2019 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine.

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DarylS
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: Ripp]
      #335568 - 17/12/19 04:53 AM

A note in my old Pacific Handloading Manual (pre Hornady), the notes on the 8x57 Mauser state it will duplicate .30/06 data at the same pressure, due to it's greater expansion ratio, that makes up for it's smaller case capacity. The data presented in the manual bears that out.

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Daryl


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: DarylS]
      #335576 - 17/12/19 09:33 AM

Poor article.

No mention of the 8x60S and the 8x68S.

Waffles on and on about the 8mm/06.

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John aka NitroX

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Ripp
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: DarylS]
      #335582 - 17/12/19 03:19 PM

Quote:

A note in my old Pacific Handloading Manual (pre Hornady), the notes on the 8x57 Mauser state it will duplicate .30/06 data at the same pressure, due to it's greater expansion ratio, that makes up for it's smaller case capacity. The data presented in the manual bears that out.




Good to know...

I really haven't had much of anything to do with the 8mm other than the .416 Rem is off of the 8mm Remington.. Craig Boddington still sings the merits of the 8mm Rem as well for elk.. so.. there you have it..

Because of this I found the information interesting..however do feel it because it is off of a mostly American site, it was slanted in information for that audience ..

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Rothhammer1
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: Ripp]
      #335583 - 17/12/19 05:53 PM

Quote:


I found the information interesting..however do feel it because it is off of a mostly American site, it was slanted in information for that audience ..




Indeed. A good read, though, and thank you for sharing it.

Here is advice from Stoeger to 1939 era American shooters regarding the 8mm:




From the Gun Digest article:
One would think a cartridge with that kind of pedigree would have a bigger following in the United States. I do realize that if my only exposure to a cartridge were via it being shot at me, I wouldn’t like it, no matter how well designed it was. Thus, I can forgive America’s Greatest Generation for snubbing its nose at the 8mm Mauser. Still, there are plenty of other reasons the 8mm Mauser (and, honestly, all 8mm-caliber cartridges) doesn’t do well here.

“In my opinion, the 8mm never really thrived in the United States because it didn’t really do anything the .30-06 wasn’t capable of doing,” said Zach Waterman of Nosler Ammunition. “The .30-06 was also the cartridge most members of the military were familiar with at the beginning of the last century; and, in my experience, people generally stick to what they know.



I would add, after the last sentence above, that one cannot overestimate the stubbornness of the American buying public, or of we 'Yanks' in general. Consider that those of us who attended school in the 1970s were told that the U.S. was in the process of converting to the metric system of measurement by 1983. I can recall some Mobil gasoline stations in the Los Angeles area selling fuel by the liter (for a very short time), and a few other attempts at change, but it seems the only ones that 'stuck' were liquor, 'soda pop', and bottled water. Otherwise, we happily confuse ourselves with an antiquated system of teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, gallons (U.S., not Imperial), ounces, pounds, acres, inches, feet, yards, and the whole bloody mess.

Time Article - Metrification US

If you suggest to the average American that we use the metric system, and how it would simplify our lives, you're likely to be told just where you should go and what you should do upon your arrival. Ask them to make change for a dollar without using 'quarters', though, and they're using the metric system without knowing. One Dollar = ten dimes = one hundred cents. When the coinage law originated in 1792, ten dollars equaled one (gold) eagle. Half dollars, quarter dollars, and half cents (minted until 1857) were used to make change for the Spanish Dollar ('pieces of eight') upon which the U.S. Dollar was based - twelve and a half cents being 1/8 dollar or 'bit' (two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar...). The first U.S. President, that George Washington fella, was for the metric system as would be Elihu Root, Thomas Edison, Herbert Hoover, and General John 'Black Jack' Pershing among other notables.

I digress.

For decades of the 20th century, U.S. collectors and enthusiasts could find rare Oberndorf Mausers, Mannlicher Schoenauers, and other 'metric' arms at gun shops and shows being sold 'for a song' as few potential buyers wanted to deal with those 'funny foreign calibers' about which they knew little and cared less.

For those who did care (in 1939), Stoeger offered these:


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: Ripp]
      #335586 - 17/12/19 07:56 PM

Quote:

I really haven't had much of anything to do with the 8mm other than the .416 Rem is off of the 8mm Remington.. Craig Boddington still sings the merits of the 8mm Rem as well for elk.. so.. there you have it..

Because of this I found the information interesting..however do feel it because it is off of a mostly American site, it was slanted in information for that audience ..




Your posts of different articles are always welcome. Even though I often disagree with some of the author's comments.

A lot of modern gun writers efforts often seem rather poor. with often such good comments and knowledge shared freely, without payment or commercial selling angles for example here on NE.

Certainly some interesting history comments on the 8 mm's in that article.

But how easy it would be to say -

"Due to post world war one bans on the military 8x57 rifles, many continental rifles in that chambering were rechambered to the slightly longer 8x60 mm. With similar performance to the original 8x57 mm and the American wildcat 8,mm/06."

Easy. The above is just my comment from memory and not a gun acadmeic level.

As for the 8x68S. How can anyone write about the 8 mm Rem Mag and not the much earlier 8x68S?!

Again from memory, how easy it would be to write something like :

"The 8x68S was introduced by Schuler (?) in 1939. It was a truly 'magnum' performance cartridge, firing a range of projectiles from 170 grs to 220 grs at velocities from X to Y. While the 8x68S usually has the "S" nomenclature of the .323 caibre 8 mm's, it is redundant as the cartridge was never chambered with .318" barrels. The 8x68S can do anything the .300 Magnums can do, perhaps better.

The 8x68S, if a suitable range of projectiles was available for it, could rival and even out do, such great vintage medium cartridges such as the .318 Westley Richards (.330 calibre). However while the 150 gr to 220 gr bullet range allows this great cartridge to rival the .300 magnums, a lack of bullets in the greater than 220 gr weights such as 250 grs, 275 and 300 grs, means this versatility is not achieved at the upper end. The .318 WR (.330) with standard bullet weights of 180 gr and 250 gr. And the .338 Win Mag and other .338 cartridges with 180 gr, 225 gr, 250 gr, 275 gr, 300 gr, shows what could be achieved with 8mm magnum cartridges.

The 8mm Rem Mag with slightly greater case capacity based on the .416 Rem Mag, largely duplicated the 8x68S decades later. "


My efforts anyway.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335588 - 17/12/19 08:03 PM

Quote:



"The 8x68S was introduced by Schuler (?) in 1939. It was a truly 'magnum' performance cartridge, firing a range of projectiles from 170 grs to 220 grs at velocities from X to Y. While the 8x68S usually has the "S" nomenclature of the .323 caibre 8 mm's, it is redundant as the cartridge was never chambered with .318" barrels. The 8x68S can do anything the .300 Magnums can do, perhaps better.

The 8x68S, if a suitable range of projectiles was available for it, could rival and even out do, such great vintage medium cartridges such as the .318 Westley Richards (.330 calibre). However while the 150 gr to 220 gr bullet range allows this great cartridge to rival the .300 magnums, a lack of bullets in the greater than 220 gr weights such as 250 grs, 275 and 300 grs, means this versatility is not achieved at the upper end. The .318 WR (.330) with standard bullet weights of 180 gr and 250 gr. And the .338 Win Mag and other .338 cartridges with 180 gr, 225 gr, 250 gr, 275 gr, 300 gr, shows what could be achieved with 8mm magnum cartridges.






While on the subject, I would be keen to learn of any suitable bullet choices of 250 grs, 275 grs and 300 grs for the 8mm / .323.

Specifically I think a good 'solid' controlled expansion 250 gr .323 round nose would be a great choice for buffalo and other heavy game species. AND a 250 gr FMJ RN to accompany the well constructed SP RN.

I probably would not use greater than 250 gr in the 8x68S. But a 180 gr, 200 gr, 220 gr and 250 gr projectiles would mean he 8x68S would achieve and out do the .300 mags, out do the vintage .318 WR and rival the .338 Mags. And give even the 9.3 mm such as the 9.3x62 a run for the money. Especially IF 275 to 300 gr projectiles was available and worked.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335589 - 17/12/19 08:05 PM

PS Ripp, I think my 8x68S with either 200 gr Swift A-frames or 220 gr A-frames would make a great choice for elk.

And stocked EITHER with a classic Germanic styled schnabel forend walnut option ... or a plastic fantastic extreme stock option.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335591 - 17/12/19 09:47 PM

From a reference post of mine.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=301921&an=&page=0&vc=1

Woodleigh makes a no doubt suitable 250 gr RN SP but not a matching FMJ.


Quote:

Re: Some bullet lists - 8 MM .323 [Re: NitroX]
#301926 - 18/06/17 09:38 PM (1.125.48.221)

8 MM .323

8x68S

Woodleigh
64B 8mm .323" 196gr RN SN
64C 220gr RN SN
64D 250gr RN SN
64F 325 Win (8mm) .323"/8 x 57 IS 200gr PP SN
64G 220gr PP SN
Barnes
Tipped TSX 160 gr TTSX
TSX 180 gr TSX
TSX 200 gr TSX

Nosler
AccuBond Bullet 200 Grain
Ballistic Tip Hunting Bullet 180 Grain
E-Tip Bullet (Lead Free) 180 Grain
Partition Bullet 200 Grain

Swift
A-Frame 200 Gr
A-Frame 220 Gr

Norma
FMJ 8,0 g/123 gr - #20680141
Oryx 12,7 g/196 gr - #20680011
Alaska 12,7 g/196 gr - #20680031
Vulkan 12,7 g/196 gr - #20680201

Speer
Hot Core
2277 8mm 150 / 9.72 Spitzer SP
2283 8mm 170 / 11.02 Semi-Spitzer SP
2285 8mm 200 / 12.96 Spitzer SP

Hornady
Interlock SP 150 Gr
Interlock RN 170 Gr
Interlock SP 195 Gr
SST 170 Gr

Sierra
150 gr. SPT Pro-Hunter 2400
175 gr. SPT Pro-Hunter 2410
200 gr. HPBT MatchKing 2415
220 gr. SBT GameKing 2420

prvipartizan
Art. Calibre Dia. (inch) Bullet Type Bullet
Weight (g) Bullet
Weight (gr)
B-471 8 mm 0.323 FMJ BT 16.30 252
B-001 8 mm 0.323 FMJ BT 12.85 198
B-564 8 mm 0.322 FMJ BT 12.96 200
B-022 8 mm 0.322 FMJ BT 12.85 198
B-424 8 mm 0.323 FMJ BT 8.00 123
B-350 8 mm 0.322 HP BT 11.34 175
B-349 8 mm 0.322 PSP BT 11.34 175
B-128 8 mm 0.323 SP 12.70 196
B-459 8 mm 0.322 SP 12.70 196
B-162 8 mm 0.323 SP 9.00 139
B-462 8 mm 0.322 SP 9.00 139

Hawk
Round Tip
150 grains x .025 RT $36.50 c4
160 grains x .030 RT $37.50 c4
180 grains x .025 RT $37.50
180 grains x .030 RT $39.00
180 grains x .035 RT $40.00
200 grains x .030 RT $40.00 c4
200 grains x .035 RT $41.00 c4
220 grains x .030 RT $40.50
220 grains x .035 RT $41.00
250 grains x .035 RT $42.50
280 grains x .030 RT $44.50 c3

Cutting Edge
175gr ESP Raptor





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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335592 - 17/12/19 09:50 PM

Could a stiff jacketed .330 250 gr Woodleigh FMJ be sized down o .323?


Quote:

Some bullet lists - .318 WR .330 [Re: NitroX]
#301927 - 18/06/17 09:39 PM (1.125.48.221)


.318 WR .330

.318 Westley Richards

Woodleigh
63 318 Westly Richards .330" 250gr RN SN
64 250gr FMJ


Betram
SP 180 Gr
SP 250 Gr

prvipartizan
Art. Calibre Dia. (inch) Bullet Type Bullet
Weight (g) Bullet
Weight (gr)
B-384 8 mm 0.330 FMJ BT 13.50 208
B-561 8 mm 0.330 SP 13.50 208

Hawk
Round Tip
200 grains x .035 RT $45.50




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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93x64mm
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335594 - 17/12/19 10:27 PM

I'm afraid our American cousins forgot about the 8x64mm Brenneke, true it came about in 1912 & like all in the 64mm stable was ahead of it time.
https://www.brenneke-ammunition.de/en/rifle-ammunition/choice-of-caliber/

8x64 ballistics - 848m/s or 2780 fps with 198gn bullet
https://www.brenneke-ammunition.de/en/rifle-ammunition/tig/

So really the 8-06 was a reinvention of the wheel or a case of parallel development!
They certainly had the right idea for sure.


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JDL
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: 93x64mm]
      #335602 - 18/12/19 12:37 AM

Back in the late 50's early 60's, my only rifle was a WWII bring back 98 Mauser. It was my combination deer and varmint rifle. I made some unbelievable shots with that 8mm rifle which remains in full military dress. Don't shoot it much anymore but, it will always remain the first high power rifle I, as a lad, ever fired.

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xausa
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: JDL]
      #335615 - 18/12/19 07:44 AM

I have several 8mm's in my gun room, including 8X57I, 8X57IS, 8X57IRS, 8X60S, 8X60RS, 8X64S, 8X64RS and 8X68S. I haven't gotten around to field testing the 8X64S and 8X68S, but they're pretty high on my to-do list. So far every one has proved more than adequate for white tails and I wouldn't hesitate to use the larger cartridges on elk/wildebeest size game.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: xausa]
      #335617 - 18/12/19 09:15 AM

So what are the other 8 mm's?

As mentioned in addiion to the:

8x57J;
8x57JS;
8 mm Rem May;
8mm/06; and
.325 Winchester SM,

there is the

8x57JR;
8c57JRS.

The slightly longer
8x60; and
8x60RS.

The 8x68S and 8x68RS (I assune).

The 8x64 and 8x64R.

The 8x56 Mannlicher.

The 8x56R Hungarian, which is actually .330 calibre.

And I am sure the are other 8 mm Eastern European military cases, I can' think of right now.

There is also the large magnum rimmed cartridge for break open rights, the 8x75RS, based on a necked down 9.3x74R case.

What else?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335621 - 18/12/19 12:25 PM

There are actually 4 different 8x75's, they are

8x75
8x75S
8x75R
8x75RS

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Rothhammer1
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335624 - 18/12/19 06:08 PM

Quote:

So what are the other 8 mm's?






A list of metric cartridges: Metric

Article from American Rifleman 01 February, 1922:
8mm Remington Mauser Mannlicher Special

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Rule303
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #335625 - 18/12/19 07:03 PM

Looking at the audience the article was written for I think it is a fair article. Piques the interest and may have some now looking into other 8MM's. Certainly gives explanation to some of the confusion about the 8X57.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #335627 - 18/12/19 09:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So what are the other 8 mm's?






A list of metric cartridges: Metric

Article from American Rifleman 01 February, 1922:
8mm Remington Mauser Mannlicher Special




Wow, that is an impressive list of one's I have forgotten and others that are completely new to me.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ripp
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: NitroX]
      #335634 - 19/12/19 01:59 AM

Quote:

PS Ripp, I think my 8x68S with either 200 gr Swift A-frames or 220 gr A-frames would make a great choice for elk.

And stocked EITHER with a classic Germanic styled schnabel forend walnut option ... or a plastic fantastic extreme stock option.




A-Frames are kryptonite to elk..
No doubt they would do the job...

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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lancaster
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: Ripp]
      #335685 - 21/12/19 05:05 PM

8x68 is allways a burner in the mannlicher schönauer https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7763754









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mauserand9mm
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: lancaster]
      #335950 - 29/12/19 09:29 PM

I took my 8mm Turk Mauser (1903 model ex-mil) to the range today to chrono some 198gn loads. My aging eyes and the standard German v-rear and spire-front sight didn't help in the accuracy department and I only managed about 2 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

Gotta love the 29 inch barrel though - averaged 2,622ft/sec with the 198gn projectiles. It'll do 3,000fps with 150gn projectiles. That's enough energy (3,000ft.lbs) to qualify for African Plains in Big Game Rifle competition.


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93x64mm
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Re: 8mm Mauser and other 8mm's... [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #335952 - 29/12/19 10:31 PM

I wish my eyes were as good as yours mauserand9mm!
Bloody frustrating isn't it!

Yes your old 8mm will qualify for the energy side of things - but falls down on the case capacity side of things (must have a case capacity greater than 30/06 Improved).

Its a shame really, as plenty of 7 & 8mm's (non magnums) were used on plains game!


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