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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Sauercollector
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Reged: 03/02/10
Posts: 21
Loc: PacNW
Help! Mauser 98 in 8.9 mm: What is it?
      #154654 - 24/02/10 05:31 AM

Hi again all. Looking at a Mauser 98 rifle with the following marks and I can't seem to determine what exactly it may be chambered for. Marks are "8.9mm" over a 62. Proof is S.tM.G N18GR. Is this the 9 x 63 Mauser cartridge or perhaps the 9.3 x 62 Mauser cartridge? The 8.9 mm is throwing me a bit as that converts to .350 bore. Does anyone else have a rifle similarly marked? There are no chambering marks on side of receiver ring and these were found behind the frame lug. Any help on this would be very much appreciated. Danke, Jeff

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Help! Mauser 98 in 8.9 mm: What is it? [Re: Sauercollector]
      #154655 - 24/02/10 05:59 AM

You are right, "8.9 mm" converts to a bore or land diameter between .350" and 9.0mm = .354", but this is the bore, not the rifling diameter. this was measured at the proofhouse using a cylindrical plug gauge. To get at the bullet diameter, you have to add two times the groove depth!Now, 8.9mm is correct for a 9.3mm cartridge. "62" is the case length, so your rifle is indeed chambered for the 9.3x62. As the bore diameter is given in mm instead of a gauge number, fi "108,49", your rifle was proofed 1912 to 1939. There should be another three-digit number like 5.28 giving month and year of proof.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Help! Mauser 98 in 8.9 mm: What is it? [Re: Sauercollector]
      #154656 - 24/02/10 06:03 AM

as diameter of the lands 8,90mm would be very small for the 9,3x62 but why not. by todays standard the land diameter is 9,00mm for the 9,3x62, for the 9x57 it is 8,80mm.
sorry, no data for the 9x63 mauser

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Help! Mauser 98 in 8.9 mm: What is it? [Re: lancaster]
      #154664 - 24/02/10 08:12 AM

lancaster, in fact the actual bore diameter with the pre-1940 8.9mm stamp may have been as large as 8.999mm. It only sais a 8.9 would pass, the next size, a 9.0mm would not! In the days before the 1940 proof law that set minimum standards for the first time, barrelmakers were free to design their own dimensions they saw fitting. There was a belief in Suhl, minimum diameter barrels to be the more accurate. And, often larger-bore barrels as 9mm and 9.3mm were rifled with 6 grooves, the grooves double the width of the lands. Such rifling effectively increases the cross-section available to the bullet's passage.

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ellenbr
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Reged: 25/08/07
Posts: 167
Loc: North Alabama
Re: Help! Mauser 98 in 8.9 mm: What is it? [Re: kuduae]
      #154668 - 24/02/10 08:37 AM

Kuduae:
So from 1910 to 1912 did the proofhouses swap all their plug gauges from English units to metric? If so, where did they source them; someone like Loewe? I think I've seen the 9.3X62mm Mauser also listed as a 0.366 Mauser so were there other variations like in the 9.3X72R or were there different size bullets for say the Miller & Greiss 9.3X63 with the Greiss banded bullet? Or was it that the cartridge wasn't normalized until circa 1912?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Help! Mauser 98 in 8.9 mm: What is it? [Re: ellenbr]
      #154670 - 24/02/10 10:51 AM

Raimay, ".366 Mauser" was simply the British name for the 9.3x62, just as they called the 7x57 ".275 Rigby" or the 9.5x57 M-Sch ".375 rimless nitro express"!
Yes, the proofhouses changed over from the gauge system, often employing decimals like in "108.49" to the metric system for rifle barrels, Zella-Mehlis in 1911, Suhl 1912. At that time Loewe was already DWM, who got their gages and measuring instruments from the gage shop of their subsidiary company Mauser. The proofhouses did not have to go as far, as both Suhl and Z-M were not only gunmaking centers then, but had also as many companies making precision measuring and surgical instruments. Alas, any gunsmith past his first apprentice year should be able to turn those simple cylindrical steel plugs.The GDR closed down gunmaking in Zella-Mehlis, but several gage-makers to the industry still exist there.

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Edited by kuduae (25/02/10 02:25 AM)

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