Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: H&H Arisaka sporters

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1
TNHillbilly
.224 member


Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
H&H Arisaka sporters
      #147263 - 05/12/09 02:57 PM

Hi Forum,

Please bear with my newbie questions. I'm posting this question here because the Arisaka is based on the Mauser. I've read about Holland and Holland sporterizing Arisaka rifles on a Japanese collector's forum. Does anyone have information on H&H (or other British firms) sporterizing Arisakas? If yes, were they available in different calibers or were they left in their original Japanese calibers? Where were they marketed?

Regards,
TN Hillbilly

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: H&H Arisaka sporters [Re: TNHillbilly]
      #147286 - 06/12/09 02:54 AM

This one I have my doubts on, but it would take a Holland and Holland expert to answer!!

Using an Arisaka at H&H would be similar to building a Rolls Royce on a VW chassis.

In my collection of actions, I have one Arisaka. Later today I will take a photo of it next to a Mauser and post here, you may be the judge! One problem is it is small, another problem is it is ugly, another problem is the strange safety. The correct actions are strong enough, but a lot has been written about unsafe Arisakas made during the end of the WWII period. My action does have a hinged floorplate, but a thumb latch needs to be fabricated and installed. I have thought of building a 250 Ackley or a 257 Roberts on the action. Would take a lot of work: New redesigned safety, floor plate latch, new bolt handle, a lot of polishing and finishing.

Edit: The floor plate is not hinged, but the front fits into the front of the bottom metal like a M98. It does have a thumb latch in the bow, so when the latch is pushed, the floor plate will drop completely out of the bottom metal.

Edited by Altamaha (06/12/09 03:46 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: H&H Arisaka sporters [Re: Altamaha]
      #147321 - 06/12/09 11:34 AM

I agree that this would take a H&H expert to answer this question, but British gunmakers used all sorts of unusual actions in the past. When Rigby were under Paul Roberts' supervision, the built bolt rifles on Brno, Ruger and Hartman and Weiss actions - in short, whatever a client wanted. I have also read about Green Mannlicher military actions being used to build light sporting rifles after the war. If there were H&H Arisakas, they would be interesting and rare guns to look at, irrespective of whether one likes Arisakas or not.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TNHillbilly
.224 member


Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
Re: H&H Arisaka sporters [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #147328 - 06/12/09 03:02 PM

Thank you for the discussion thus far on my inquiry about "British Arisaka Sporters".

I've found another tantalizing reference to the 6.5 Arisaka in Britian and Rigby making some sporters, but no pictures yet.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/256brit.htm

I agree the Arisaka action is rough on the late-war models but the workmanship on the pre-war, turn-of-century actions is good. I can see why the British firms "might" have converted some for possible Far East / Hong Kong area trade. It would be interesting to see one...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TNHillbilly
.224 member


Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
Re: H&H Arisaka sporters [Re: TNHillbilly]
      #147329 - 06/12/09 03:16 PM

Sorry the first link is only about the British use of the 6.5 Arisaka ammo.

This is the link with a reference to Rigby making sporters. http://www.chuckhawks.com/arisaka_sporter.htm

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Arisaka Photos H&H Thread [Re: TNHillbilly]
      #147330 - 06/12/09 03:25 PM

Argentine and Arisaka Actions Compared

Took these photos today, a 1909 Argentine Mauser and Arisaka action. The Arisaka is a type 38 used for the 6.5mm cartridge. I do not have a 7.7mm type 99, but it is similar to the 38, with a few changes: longer rear tangs, the L slot for the bolt handle does not have as much overhang, a integral recoil lug as in the Mauser, a bolt stop that is a Mauser copy, some difference in bolt ejector slot milling, some changes in the bottom metal, larger barrel threads and a few others.

Don’t know if you can see them, but the receiver ring on the 38 has two gas vent holes at about a 45 degree angle off the top center. The top tang is held on by the rear action screw and fits in a slot in the rear of the receiver. The safety is a pain to operate, push it in with your thumb or palm heel and turn it to the left for safe. And the action has a groove on each side, at about the stock line, for a mud cover that covered the action opening when the bolt was closed.

Note that the Arisaka is a shorter action than the Mauser.

Early Arisaka's were made of pretty good steel, PO Ackley did several blow up tests on the Arisakas and concluded they were as strong as a Mauser. But the quality went down as the War ground down to an end.

RE the 1909 Argentine Action: Just another from my shelf of actions, stashed away for future projects. I have a couple of 1909's in better condition, although this one is in fine shape except for the bottom metal.













Edited by Altamaha (07/12/09 05:44 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TNHillbilly
.224 member


Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
Re: Arisaka Photos H&H Thread [Re: Altamaha]
      #147367 - 07/12/09 08:22 AM

Hello Altamaha,

Wow! Thank you for the comparison photos and helping teach me about two of the period actions that would have been available to British/period builders. I do see how the Arisaka would be limited to shorter cartridges and is more of a VW chassis.

My inquiry also is if other than the US post-WWII cut-up Arisakas I've seen with their quality ranging from corncobs to ok sporters were produced elsewhere. Especially since the 6.5 Arisaka was available worldwide in the between the wars period/era.

The unusual safety is just that to me...unusual. But it seems to work. Things I do like about the Arisaka is the minimal number of bolt parts, Ackley confirmed action strength of early ones, and the reinforced tangs in the stock wrist. I'd think the tangs would help make the wrist area extra strong. Not elegant but strong.

Your Argentine action is very nice. Any ideas on what you want to build it into? Does it easily convert into a period style & caliber? Or do you plan to rebuild it in 7.65?

Sincerely,
TN Hillbilly

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Arisaka Photos H&H Thread [Re: TNHillbilly]
      #147368 - 07/12/09 09:15 AM

Yea, the Arisaka may be turned into a decent rifle with some work, this is why I have hung onto the action. I probable will make it into a 257 Roberts.

The Argentine is a 30-06 length action, so any thing in this range will work. I have made them into 35 Whelen, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 7mm Mag, and others. Main advantage of the Argentine is the hinged floor plate, and the fact that they were the best of the Mausers in reguards to fit and finish. Don't know what this one will be, maybe a 280 Ackley, as I have a reamer.

Back in the 60's and 70's I bought every Mauser action I could find at the gun shows, they were cheap back then. A few P-14 and P-17 Enfields also. Squirreled them away for times like now when I am retired and finally have time to work on my gun projects!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Arisaka Photos H&H Thread [Re: TNHillbilly]
      #147369 - 07/12/09 09:16 AM

I've read that a few Arisaka sporters have been made in Finland using Arisakas obtained from the Russians at the end of WW1.

IIRC, these rifles were originally purchased by Britain, intended to be used as trainers but never having been used to any great extent {or at all} as American-made P14's arrived and served that purpose. Some P14's were of course also used as sniper rifles by the British. The Arisakas were then sold or given to Czarist Russia during 1916, some then falling into Finnish hands in 1918.

Maybe the British sporters were made with some of these UK-purchased guns?

And yes, with no recoil shouldere the 6.5 bout the extent of what you want to chamber the thing in. Heavier kickers need not apply...demonstrated when the Japanese added the recoil shoulder to the 7.7 version.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1642
Loc: Finland
Re: Arisaka Photos H&H Thread [Re: 9.3x57]
      #147418 - 08/12/09 05:13 AM

"I've read that a few Arisaka sporters have been made in Finland using Arisakas obtained from the Russians at the end of WW1."

That's true. VALMET and some smaller custom shops converted those Arisaka-rifles for hunting. They used to make those rifleds to "wild cat" -kaliber 7x54 which was made by converting 6,5 swede case for 7 mm (.283) bullet.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Arisaka Photos H&H Thread [Re: Igorrock]
      #147424 - 08/12/09 06:54 AM

My first two varmint rifles were based on Ariska Model 38 6.5mm rifles. The first was modified simply by rechambering it with a .243 Winchester reamer using a .264" pilot. The result was one of the earliest examples of a 6.5X.308 or .260 Remington cartridge (this was about 1958). The bolt handle was replaced by welding with another, suitable for a low mounted scope, and the barrelled action was fitted to a Fajan sporter stock and equipped with a Williams ramp front sight and a Redfield receiver sight. Later it was fitted with bases for a Unertl target scope for long range work.

Counterintuitively, the military barrel, with its 7.5" twist and Medford type rifling, shot light weight (94 grain Norma) bullets exceptionally well and the rifle accounted for a number of crows and groundhogs before being supplanted by another Arisaka, this one rebarrelled to .22-.250 (still a wildcat at the time).

Back then, an outfit called Flaig's, in Millvale, PA, sold prechambered barrels threaded for a number of military actions, including the Arisaka. I chose a varmint weight barrel and after it was installed and headspaced in my action, I fitted it to a Fajan varmint stock, added a Unertl 1" target scope, and was ready for the big time.

This also represented my first attempt at glass bedding, which was accomplished by use of an auto body repair material called Bond-O. Not very pretty, but functional. The rifle shot like a house afire, and crows and groundhogs suffered even more, since the cost reduction from 6.5mm to .22 caliber bullets allowed me more "bang for the buck", an important consideration in my college days.

The .22-.250 is long gone, but I still have the 6.5, or I should say, have it again, since I had given it to a friend, who has since died. His widow wanted me to have it back.

My main complaint with the Arisaka was the trigger, which was not all that great. Also, the cock on closing feature meant that you could not uncock tha action on an empty chamber simply by holding the trigger back while closing the bolt. The safety was not the most convenient in the world, especially with a scope mounted. On the other hand, it introduced me to the world of handloading, precision receiver sights, target scopes, and long range shooting. A good investment, all in all.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
apr1775
.275 member


Reged: 02/10/08
Posts: 57
Loc: Virginia, the united States of...
Re: Arisaka Photos H&H Thread [Re: xausa]
      #149214 - 01/01/10 04:41 AM

It would not suprise me if at some point a Japanese official had a custom Arisaka sporter made. Many of the British gun makers were using imported rifle actions to build their custom Mausers on anyway, so why not do one on a Japanese action? That type 38 action looks like it would be good for building a short action sporter. Barrel threads are 1.025" 14tpi, very easy to cut. Walnut sporter stocks are still out there.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 21 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  NitroX 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 9720

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved