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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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mehulkamdar
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Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions
      #261278 - 27/02/15 04:51 AM

I have accumulated three Siamese Mauser actions and one receiver only without any magazine. I have had two of these for a long time, but could not build on them for various reasons. I am retired now, and would like to slowly start. I would appreciate suggestions on what might be the biggest caliber that I could build on one of the actions without spending too much on modifying it. I thought of a 50-110, but am wondering if something bigger like a 577 2 3/4" might fit?

Of the other actions, one will be a 303 sporter. I don't know about the two others, but am not in a hurry to decide. However, I have been reading about a South African creation, 6mm Musgrave, which might be a nice lightweight rifle choice on the receiver only, with a blind magazine.

And, I must sincerely thank Huvius for his gift of a very nice heavy barreled 45-70 on a Siamese action that I shot fir the first time recently. It is a really nice rifle built for target shooting, and it was a thoughtful and very nice gift. I owe him big on this.

Thanks for the suggestions in advance, and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #261281 - 27/02/15 05:59 AM

Hey Mel- I helped a guy with his Siamese Mauser .45/70 back in the late 70's when I lived in Smithers, BC.

We used the same loads in it as I was using in my .458 American (2")- for identical performance.

My 2" allowed slightly longer seating, so it was actually the equivalent of a 2.3" case for both of us due also to the .2" leade chamber in his bolt gun.

This allowed us to run 500's at 2,060fps, 400's at 2,150fps, 350's at 2,300fps and 300's at 2,450fps - all without stressing anything.

A .50 Alaskan (.348 Case) would be interesting and the brass easier to get than .50-110 - maybe- although that would be interesting as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AbitNutz
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: DarylS]
      #265014 - 16/05/15 01:52 AM

Weirdly enough I'm currently having a Siamese Mauser built in .303 British. It's a low dollar project, at least as low dollar as these things can be.

The gunsmith currently has it, along with a sporter stock, Green Mountain barrel and Timney trigger. I also furnished a couple of followers from P14 Eddystone and Winchester rifles in case they can be made to work a bit better than the Siamese follower.

I'm a little concerned that the extractor may be a bit short for the 303. Initial trials seem to indicate it may be ok but we won't know until it's barreled.

This is a case of the tail wagging the dog. I happen to have a couple of thousand rounds of terrific Greek surplus .303 British ammo. This ammo is really fine stuff. It's non-corrosive, boxer primed, lead cored, copper jacketed and fully non-magnetic.

Being left eyed...when I ran across a left handed, right bolt sporter stock inletted (at least mostly inletted) for a Siamese Mauser, the project was on.

I'll post pictures as soon as it's done.

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Huvius
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: AbitNutz]
      #265023 - 16/05/15 07:33 AM

Mehul, I am glad you got around to shooting that thing.
As I remember, I once had a Leupold variX3 on it and could easily hit beer cans at 200yds with it.
I thought of making it a 450 Marlin and also thought simply using 450 basic brass trimmed to the maximum length with whatever bullet you prefer would be pretty good since it would be as easy as rechambering to whatever length that ends up being. Maybe like a 45/90 or so with a 450gr bullet or a 458WM rimmed.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Huvius]
      #265026 - 16/05/15 08:19 AM

Yes - should be able to make a 3 1/4" reamer cut any length chamber you want, form a nice tight based .45 2 1/0" to 3 1/4" and anything inbetween - just have to cut the rim recess on the lathe.
The .45 2 7/8" was the REAL .45-120 Sharps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ash
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: DarylS]
      #265042 - 16/05/15 09:09 PM

.348 Winchester would be fun also, but you're chasing big. What's the bolt face diameter? If lengths an issue maybe .577 snider?

--------------------
.

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Ash]
      #265047 - 17/05/15 01:23 AM

Siamese does OK with the .348 case, as the rim is the same size as the .45/70 - just less difference from body head to rim diameter. A .450 Alaskan or even .50 Alaskan would also be good choices.

Starline even makes .50 Alaskan brass marked cases now. My bro just received 200 of them for his Sharps. He uses it as a .50 2 1/10" BP round with 91gr. 1 1/2 Swiss with a 600gr. Buffalo Arms bullet.(mould) It's an excellent shooting rifle so far, to 600yards. The bl. is from Harry McGowen (St. Anne. Illinois), 24" twist.

Moulds run down to 300gr. on the light side. A .50 Alaskan easily gets over 2,000fps developing quite moderate pressures with all bullet weights. 600's might struggle to get much over 2,000fps. though, depending on the throat.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: DarylS]
      #265048 - 17/05/15 02:27 AM

This is my .450 Alaskan, a Single Shot M71/1876 Mauser. I use only light loads, of course, BP type - in smokeless or real black powder. The new .348 Winchester brass is easily necked up and fireformed with about any load. The resulting case capacity is about 97-99gr. of water, 5 to 7gr. more than a .458 Win. Mag case. In a strong action like the Siamese Mauser, it can be a formidable elephant ctg. or loaded down like a .45/70 BP ctg. if you wish. H4895 will run the gamut from mild to wild.




--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ash
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: DarylS]
      #265059 - 17/05/15 09:01 AM

Quote:

Siamese does OK with the .348 case, as the rim is the same size as the .45/70 - just less difference from body head to rim diameter. A .450 Alaskan or even .50 Alaskan would also be good choices.

Starline even makes .50 Alaskan brass marked cases now. My bro just received 200 of them for his Sharps. He uses it as a .50 2 1/10" BP round with 91gr. 1 1/2 Swiss with a 600gr. Buffalo Arms bullet.(mould) It's an excellent shooting rifle so far, to 600yards. The bl. is from Harry McGowen (St. Anne. Illinois), 24" twist.

Moulds run down to 300gr. on the light side. A .50 Alaskan easily gets over 2,000fps developing quite moderate pressures with all bullet weights. 600's might struggle to get much over 2,000fps. though, depending on the throat.



.348 Winnie is the .50-110 necked down, not .45-70. No point going .50 Alaskan when starline make brass relatively cheap for .50-110 as you don't have the OAL issue the .50 Alaskan was designed to suit in the Marlin 1895.

Having said that - I do love your .450 Alaskan pictured above

I'd go .50-110, can throw a 500gr bullet I believe to 2000 or 2100 in a modern rifle.

--------------------
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Yochanan
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Ash]
      #265080 - 17/05/15 08:15 PM

So I suggest, 50-110, 303 and 5,6x57R

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Yochanan]
      #265091 - 17/05/15 11:20 PM

I don't think I am usurping the thread as it is a similar topic.

What would be a good chambering for a Siamese Mauser in 8mm in a Nitro Express cartridge of around .330 or larger?

Would a .333 Jeffery in rimmed version be silly, easy or? Maybe the .318 WR, in a rimmed version? Did it have a rimmed version? I haven't looked it up to see. What about some sort of .360? Or .366? Others?

I had a very brief look at one, last week, and didn't think about this at the time so will need to have a much better look. This all assumes I could get Police permission to buy anpther centrefire seeing it is harder and harder to get new ones once one has passed a certain limit.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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mehulkamdar
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: DarylS]
      #265256 - 20/05/15 09:59 AM

Daryl,

I'm not a handloader yet. I have a press but just haven't got around to it. Should start now, as I'm retired.

Thank you for all the suggestions. I am a learner, and sincerely appreciate the wealth of information that you gentlemen take time to share.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: AbitNutz]
      #265257 - 20/05/15 10:02 AM

AbitNutz,

I have not had my actions barreled for the 303 yet, but I did try cycling 303 ammo through the actions alone, and had no issue at all. It was almost as if the action had been made for the 303. I also know a friend who has a Siamese built into 30-40 Krag, and it shoots and feeds brilliantly as well. So there are possibilities . . .

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Huvius]
      #265259 - 20/05/15 10:06 AM

Huvius,

It is a most magnificent gift, and I never fail to get admiring looks when I take it out to Bailey's range, near my place. Thank you very much! I have been swapping scopes with my other rifles, but the gentlemen at Primary Arms near my place, offered to put one of their scopes on it. They are great folk, and I hope to put permanent optics on it either this week, or the next.

Thank you, again, my friend, and I hope we can meet soon. I owe you big for your thoughtfulness!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Ash]
      #265261 - 20/05/15 10:11 AM

Ash,

50-110 was one of my original choices, and someone who had one built in the caliber, sent me a load of information. He hot-rods that round to insane levels, which I am not sure I want to do, though. I am wondering, though, if I might satisfy my armchair safari lust by building one rifle for an even bigger chambering. Hence the question about the 577 2 3/4".

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Yochanan]
      #265263 - 20/05/15 10:12 AM

Yochanan,

5.6x57R would be close to impossible to get loaded ammo or cases for over here . . .

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: NitroX]
      #265264 - 20/05/15 10:20 AM

John,

The original was for an 8x52R service round, though, of course, gunsmiths have built all sorts of rifles on the action. I was told that the 333 Rimmed Jeffery is long for the action, and that it would need work to feed. I did a web search and some seem to have been made into 405 Winchester also. I guess what you can do with one, depends upon how much you're ready to spend on it. Personally, I don't want to modify my actions too much. Hence the speculation and request for guidance.

Best wishes, and I hope you get the authorities to permit you to buy and build a rifle as well. I shall look forward to learning what you finally decide to do on your action.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Ash]
      #265267 - 20/05/15 10:25 AM

Ash - I did not say the .348 was based on the .45/70's case.

I did, however, say the .348's rim was the same diameter as the 45/70, as below.

Sorry for the misinterpretation of my post.

"Siamese does OK with the .348 case, as the rim is the same size as the .45/70 - just less difference from body head to rim diameter. "

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: DarylS]
      #265271 - 20/05/15 10:39 AM

I automatically thought of larger calibres for the Siamese Mauser due to the possibility.

Making one up in a .303 or .30/40 Krag just seemed a waste of a good large bore action.

On the other hand, being a new handloader, one should always start with easier projects where there is a lot of information due to popularity of the round.

With today's modern powders, the .303 in a stronger action, like the Siamese or P14 for that matter, better than factory ballistics are entirely possible.

Even better, is a .308 groove diameter barrel with the .303 chambering, that is, if the chamber is cut for the standard .303's neck diameter - thus all factory .303 ammo can be used along with hand loads using .308" bullets to 220 or 225gr. - whatever is available. Using factory .303 ammo does not develop excessive pressures in the tighter .308" bore as we've tested this here in my friend's rifle. It has a .308" groove diameter X .300" bore diameter but a standard .303 chamber. We merely ground the reamer's pilot to fit the .300" bore. Thus, this P14 rifle is capable of shooting the standard .311" to .312" bullets along with all .308" bullets, from 100gr. to 220gr. He restricts his larger bullet'd loads to factory loaded .303 British - thus lower, entirely safe pressures are being developed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: DarylS]
      #265283 - 20/05/15 05:01 PM

Mehul

I do not have one, just looked briefly at one. Unlikely I will be spending much $$$ on such a project at the present time. It is an idea however.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ash
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: NitroX]
      #265299 - 20/05/15 07:36 PM

Thanks Daryl, i didn't realise rim size was the same. No need to apologise for MY misinterpretation

I looked at that .303 option for a Hembrug M95, but found a 7mm Argentine barrel (the big long one with the 2 steps) and it is getting fitted/chambered in .303 now.

I agree, something about these actions screams "Big". I like rimmed cartridges in bolt guns, there's just something about it haha.

Personally, .50-110 - the 300gr @ 2200fps load is just peachy. One day i'll get a Winchester in this caliber..one day!

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.

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Ash]
      #265314 - 21/05/15 12:45 AM

A "good" substitute would be a .50/95 in a Uberti or Pedersoli Model 1976 Winchester. It wouldn't take huge pressure due to it's toggle link action but what a fantastic rifle, they are, to shoot. It will do a normal 2,000fps with a 300gr.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Ash]
      #265327 - 21/05/15 07:12 AM

Quote:

I looked at that .303 option for a Hembrug M95, but found a 7mm Argentine barrel (the big long one with the 2 steps) and it is getting fitted/chambered in .303 now.



Do you mean 7.65X53 Argentine, that I suggested you ask around for a take off barrel as I had acquired one to do a 303 on one of mine ?

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Ash
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Sarg]
      #265340 - 21/05/15 04:56 PM

That's it. Yeah, i found a minty bore one and it's getting put on now Must of had a brain slip to forget .65mm on the end, bleh.

How's yours coming along? I'll do a thread on mine and you can post yours up in it too but it'll be slow going as i have no plans for the stock yet.

--------------------
.

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HunterGunner
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Re: Siamese Mauser Big Bore build suggestions [Re: Ash]
      #265912 - 04/06/15 05:07 PM

I'm looking at turning my siamese into a 7.62x54r, fits almost perfectly into the bolt face and extractor. This can be loaded to almost mirror 30/06 ballistics.

--------------------
Psalm 24:1

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