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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Model 1900 Mannlicher
      #318008 - 13/07/18 05:21 PM

How many years, and over what period was the Model 1900 made in its commercial ( Sporting) form please.??

Best
Eric

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318014 - 14/07/18 01:42 AM

well, good question because it was something experimental and found the ultimate design with the Model 1903

I would say that no "model 1900" was made after 1903

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Vladymere
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/15
Posts: 187
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: lancaster]
      #318035 - 14/07/18 11:55 AM

Concur.

Vlad

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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: Vladymere]
      #318100 - 15/07/18 06:36 PM

Lancaster...why do you say experimental??

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318107 - 15/07/18 10:59 PM

Less than 2000 M1900 Mannlicher – Schoenauers were made by the Steyr factory. Some changes were made during production. So the cartridge release button was positioned outside the right action rail on the earliest examples. Later M1900s had it set inside the rail, like all later M-Ss. Allmost all of the M1900s were originally made in military configuration with 26" barrels and big round bolt knobs, destined as military test rifles to be offered to other states, hoping for adoption and export orders. Many of these military configuration rifles were sold to the British guntrade, predominantly George Gibbs, Bristol, just like the predecessors Mannlicher M92, 93, 95 had been. British gunmakers then sporterised these rifles. Most were restocked, resighted, refinished and given a B-prefix G.Gibbs serial number. Apparently Steyr never made any full length, half stock sporting rifles themselves. But they did make a few full stocked Stutzen/carbines with the familiar "butterknife" bolt handles. Perhaps these were made from leftover parts from 1902 to 1904 as samples for the coming M1903 Stutzen. Steyr offered civilian sporters on the M1903 Greek military action from 1905 on only. Two such M1900 Stutzen , both with much later scopes and mounts, were dicussed here http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=315067&an=0&page=1#Post315067
As I have yet to see a Steyr factory made M1900 sporting rifle, just three such carbines, I believe Steyr never made many such sporters. They certainly stopped making M1900 actions after adoption and production of the M1903 began, though they used up leftover parts perhaps.

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Louis
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: kuduae]
      #318109 - 15/07/18 11:44 PM

Thank you very much Kuduae for - as usual, teaching us!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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lancaster
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318118 - 16/07/18 04:09 AM

Quote:

Lancaster...why do you say experimental??



yes, its a hard word

only little details but what I meaning was it don't found the final version before 1903.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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rglenz
.300 member


Reged: 14/03/08
Posts: 134
Loc: w. Minn
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: lancaster]
      #318128 - 16/07/18 09:25 AM

I have a model 1900 22" barreled full stock, retailed by Westley Richards. The rifle looks like a Steyr factory sporter with engraving, sights and round horn bolt knob added by Westley. The MS serial no. is a bit under 300 and it went through proof in 1902.

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: rglenz]
      #318136 - 16/07/18 11:15 AM

Sounds very interesting. Do you have any pictures of the rifle in particular the bolt knob.

Waidmannsheil.

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rglenz
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #318140 - 16/07/18 12:16 PM

Sorry, I don't have any photo's, I'm busy packing for a Sable hunt in Zim right now. I'll try to remember to post some when I'm back home in August.

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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: rglenz]
      #318143 - 16/07/18 04:12 PM

Kuduae et al

I started this thread, as I too have not seen a Factory Model 1900 commercial sported.

Thank you. it sounds like that what I have just purchased may be an unusual, if not rare M1900 sporter ( removable stock).
It has stippled front ring with later style date markings of 1900.
it is typically Mannlicher all over, and definatley not of English make ( perhaps the lever may be marked " Safe", and the bolt knob added, but essentially only small refinements.
The cartridge release button is on the outside, and it has the "Bxxxx" ( Gibbs?) number stamped to the rear of the top tang as well as a serial number of 373
It has a Horn? round knob, is cased by an English Retailer ( sourced from Gibbs) and is described to me as possibly unfired.
I doubt that , but initial pictures indicate its in fine condition.

I should have delivery in the next 2 weeks and will post photos for your comments

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: rglenz]
      #318147 - 16/07/18 06:24 PM

No problems, have a good trip.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318148 - 16/07/18 06:26 PM

Eric, sounds very good, looking forward to seeing some photos.

Matt.

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paradox_
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: Louis]
      #318176 - 17/07/18 05:54 PM

Apparently.... Steyr DID make a Model 1900 half stock commercial sporter.

Further to the description I gave above I now have a couple of photos pending the rifles arrival in around a week from now.
The rather odd foresight can be seen. It has the factory cleaning rod in the butt trap and looks in exceptional condition.
The case is likewise. Bolt face is unmarked.
Apologies for the poor photos( not taken by me). Once received and closely inspected I will post a full set of photos, proofs and a history of the retailer who retailed it after acquiring from. Gibbs.
Hopefully I will have time to create a seperate thread for this rifle before leaving for Africa.


[image][/image]

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318177 - 17/07/18 07:19 PM

Fantastic Eric, what a beauty with case and all. Certainly in superb condition although it certainly looks like it has been fired at least a few times. Interesting sights and bolt knob. Well done.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #318743 - 03/08/18 04:36 PM

Gentlemen

The plot thickens.

I now have this wonderful and very unusual Model 1900 sporting rifle to hand.

I will say that it has many very unusual features.
Lets start with the proof marks.

It is confirmed that this rifle was supplied by Gibbs as per the " B" number around 1900. There is no English proof marks, on the contrary those in the pictures are Belgium.
Noted the classic Perron mark nitro proof and Im going to say that the " X " with a as a star is by proof controller Alfred Reignier, who was a controller from 1937-64??
Gratful for any opinions from those with any thoughts on this deepening mystery. Was this rifle a genuine prototype to the Model 1903 that went to Gibbs as a complete sporting rifle, then supplied to the English retailer, then went to Begium before the war???.
Before coming into my pocession it was transported from the UK to Australia in the 1980s Why no English proof marks?
The rifle is in slendid condition, no indication of proofs having been removed. I believe this example may be unique.
I will post some tantalising differences before I go to Africa next week, and then a new thread for a full and detailed view, should anyone be interested

see proofs below

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3975
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318745 - 03/08/18 05:25 PM

Certainly like your name sake...a Paradox!
Most unusual heritage & proof marks....or lack of????
I have to say mate this 'old lady' is in age only, not in use; superb or pristine would be more apt a description!
Enjoy your hunt - lucky bugger!
Regards
93x64mm

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: 93x64mm]
      #318752 - 03/08/18 09:38 PM

Interesting proof marks Eric, looking forward to seeing the rest of the rifle when you get a chance.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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RisingBite
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Reged: 02/05/18
Posts: 6
Loc: Queensland
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #318768 - 04/08/18 07:59 AM

Paradox, thanks for the chance to view your 1900 Msc last night. The subtle differences of this great rifle, compared to your 1903 6.5s are indeed intriguing and I know you won't rest until you have researched it to death!
All the best of luck for your upcoming hunt in Africa.

regards
Mike.

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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318776 - 04/08/18 08:04 PM

Paradox, congratulations on your clean, classic and probably unique rifle; if only it could talk one would get its full history!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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paradox_
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: Louis]
      #318806 - 05/08/18 03:36 PM

Thanks Louis

Ill put up some " differences " pictures. over coming weeks. Here are some of the wood.
Ive used my Holland Model 1903 as comparison, it does have some special order features , but mostly its typical 1903. This 1900 makes my 1903s look quite ordinary...if thats possible!!!

Note the unusual grip cap and fine chequering. Also the barrel channel cuts are interesting

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318891 - 08/08/18 12:32 PM

Note the unusual takedown pin/sling hanger. Beautifully made. See conventional pin for comparison
Anyone seen this before please??

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

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Louis
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Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: paradox_]
      #318899 - 08/08/18 06:02 PM

You really acquired a jewel, Paradox!
I have personally never seen such sling swivels, obviously created especially for MS detachable-stock rifles.
The system itself is similar to the earliest versions of 'standard' detachable sling swivels produced much later; if it is not patent protected, you should get this done and launch a limited production as MS detachable-stock owners would with no doubt be interested!

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: Louis]
      #318902 - 08/08/18 06:46 PM

That sling swivel looks very similar to the detachable ones that were standard with the German military Gewehr 88 and Gew98 rifles. These allowed to fasten the the rear end of the sling in two ways: At a hole through magazine box (M88) or trigger guard (M98) for parading or to a base under the buttstock for carrying. As Steyr made about 300K M88 infantry rifles for the German armies from 1889 on, it was a design well known by them in 1900.

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Louis
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Posts: 977
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Re: Model 1900 Mannlicher [Re: kuduae]
      #318910 - 08/08/18 11:26 PM

Thank you for teaching us again, Master Kuduae!
You should think of writing a book, or maybe in your case an encyclopaedia, in order to share your knowledge with the mere mortals!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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