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m4220
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H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2
      #249586 - 27/06/14 02:54 AM

Some pic's of a very nice D/R in a great cartridge, this one does not have a tang sight.













m4220


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rigbymauser
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: m4220]
      #249592 - 27/06/14 05:01 AM

Thanks for sharing.

I believe that gun was made to an englishmen. The 400/350 No2 is the also
9x70Förster.


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kuduae
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: rigbymauser]
      #249593 - 27/06/14 05:53 AM

As no mandatory German proofmarks are visible on the barrel flats the rifle was apparently heavily reworked in the USA.

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m4220
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: kuduae]
      #249595 - 27/06/14 06:18 AM

Axel,
I disagree, This was discussed prior to purchase & there is no evidence of any rework other than the bbl flats polished. I think it was as stated as being made for an English customer.

m4220







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Waidmannsheil
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: m4220]
      #249598 - 27/06/14 07:13 AM

Very Nice.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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ellenbr
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: kuduae]
      #249606 - 27/06/14 12:00 PM

Quote:

As no mandatory German proofmarks are visible on the barrel flats the rifle was apparently heavily reworked in the USA.




Axel, you've lost your ever lovin' mind. You need to either knock the dust off of or wipe the moisture off your monocle as one can plainly see the diameter stamps as well as that there is load data on the side of the tubes. Maybe it is just the lighting. I don't see anything that points toward a re-work and I understand that not having it in hand makes it difficult.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


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ellenbr
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: ellenbr]
      #249607 - 27/06/14 12:04 PM



3 grams of military flake powder

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


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Huvius
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: ellenbr]
      #249608 - 27/06/14 12:47 PM

Really nice rifle there.
Those cartridges look to be standard 400/350s with 310gr bullets.
I have wondered if the 310gr loads even come close to regulating in a double made for the No.2.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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m4220
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: Huvius]
      #249612 - 27/06/14 01:21 PM

Hi Huvius,
Good eye! I have since aqquired an original box of Rigby .350 #2 & have rounded up all my loading components to start working up loads with the proper 225 grn bullets. Will try some .400/.350 loads with the 310 grn bullets as well just to see if they will regulate as well?

m4220


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kuduae
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: m4220]
      #249629 - 27/06/14 11:23 PM

Raimey, you don't need to criticize my aging eyesight. I may have seen more or noted the lack of more than you did. Yes, I have seen the part scrubbed bore/land diameter marking 8.7m (second m polished off), correct for a 9mm/.350“ barrel, post-1912 style. I have also seen the service charge mark, pre-1912 style. These date the rifle to the transitional time, 1911-13. But I miss the prescribed BGU or CROWN - crown/N proofmarks on the barrel flats. Polishing off these marks by removing metal must have affected the barrel to action fit, needing replacing of the hinge pin at least and refitting. Further, the hand stamped inscription “350 NO.2 RIGBY / MAG.” is in a font common in English speaking countries, but not in Germany, so it was done elsewhere. BTW, apparently you have not seen the well known MM mark of barrelmaker Max Möller, Forstgasse 7, Zella-Mehlis in 1912. If not only the barrels were made in Z-M, I would also expect 1911-13 Z-M proofmarks, complete with case length, proof date and ledger number, on the barrel flats. I don't see any technical reason to polish the Barrel flats so much to remove this Information. So there must have been another reason for the polishing, better scrubbing, to a degree that the original Information is lost.
The service charge given on the barrel, 3 g = 46 gr (military) flake rifle powder is the one given in contemporary catalogs, f.i. Burgsmueller 1910, for the 9x57R with the 18.2g = 281 gr steel jacketed bullet. The service charge for the 9.3x74 with the 18.5 = 285 gr bullet was 3.5g = 54 gr, just for comparison. Only if the 400-350, 9x70R or 350 No2 Rigby used the same service powder charge as the 9x57R the rifle is still in it's original caliber.
Rigbymauser, the Förster, Berlin cartridge was the 9x74R, DWM case # 474. The 9x70R, DWM case number 474B, is a bit confusing. Though the DWM case book says “for Rigby”, the 1904 catalog calls it “Kal. 400/360 Engl.Modell”. So most literature thinks it to be the .400 – 360 Westley – Richards. According to Graeme Wright the .400/.360 WR cartridge used .366 bullets, but the 1904DWM catalog disagrees. Here these dimensions are given: case neck inside diameter 9.15 mm = .360 instead of the 9.3x74R # 474A case (called 9mm btw!) 9.30 mm = .366”. Further, on page 28 the bullet # 285, 20.4 g = 315 gr, diameter 9.15 mm = .360”, is given as “for case # 474B”. So I believe that 9x70R DWM # 474B cartridge is in fact the .400-.350 Rigby.


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ellenbr
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: kuduae]
      #250547 - 17/07/14 12:40 AM

Ah, maybe better phrased wisdom with the age and possibly some odd tobacco in your pipe. Has it had a thorough cleaning as of late? Anyway, more later but the below might be tangible Klett link to your acorn story. Klett didn't have a steel mill.



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


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kuduae
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: ellenbr]
      #250565 - 17/07/14 04:09 AM

Raimey, you should throw away your magnifying glass and undo your blinkers. Both seem to narrow down your field of view in a most dangerous way. Of course, none of the post-1900 Suhl barrel- or gunmaking Kletts had a steelwork of their own. Gunmaking Kletts are mentioned in Suhl since 1490. Many of the early Kletts were barrelmakers. During the 1500s -1700s they sold musket barrels all over Europe, to arsenals as far away as Zürich, Bern and Geneva. In the early 1600s, the time of the 30 years war, a branch of the family emigrated to the Salzburg area, working for the archbishop there. Many of these early Kletts used the “Klettblume” = burr flower as their mark, one to three burrs, often on stalks. Read the chapter on the gunmaking Kletts in Fritze’s book “Suhl – Heimat der Büchsenmacher”.
But there are many more families named “Klett” in Germany, not related to the Suhl Kletts. German Wikipedia lists no less than 18 persons named Klett, none a gunmaker, and the Klett publishing company. The most interesting when it comes to “Klett steel” is Johann Friedrich Klett, 1778 – 1848. He may even be related to the Suhl Kletts, as he was born in Zella. In 1841 he founded the ironworks Klett & Co in Nuremberg, which later became part of the MAN combine. So maybe MAN later tried their hand in supplying barrel steel, using their old Klett steel label. Or, one of the barrelmaking Kletts, the “K in burr” mark is visible in the photo, bought in a noname barrelsteel and marked it as “his own”, not an uncommon procedure in the German guntrade.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: kuduae]
      #250567 - 17/07/14 05:16 AM

I see a couple of "Heidelberg" dueling cheek scars eventuating from this spirited discussion.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Buchsemann
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Re: H Scherping D/R .350 Rigby #2 [Re: NitroX]
      #250595 - 18/07/14 12:57 AM

The two going back and forth has taken on a testy tone at times but what a gift they are to the firearms community; most notably for those of us interested in German and Austrian sporting arms.

Thank you both for all you have shared with us.

Cheers ... better yet, Prosit!

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden


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