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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Express Sight Interest?
      #110313 - 24/07/08 06:30 AM

I was thinking that making express sights might be something that I would like to try. Would there be a small market for these?

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Life is for Service

Edited by tarawa (26/07/08 12:30 AM)

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110316 - 24/07/08 06:46 AM

You might want to check out New England Custom Gun first. You will have to compete with them and their quality and prices. I'd love to see more sights on the market, so don't think I'm trying to discourage you.

http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/

Take care, Tom

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
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Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110318 - 24/07/08 07:27 AM

I think if you can put out a good sight for a decent price, that you will be sucessful. I know I would be interested in one with one standing and maybe one or two folding leaves.

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: Tatume]
      #110325 - 24/07/08 10:36 AM

Quote:

You might want to check out New England Custom Gun first. You will have to compete with them and their quality and prices. I'd love to see more sights on the market, so don't think I'm trying to discourage you.

http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/

Take care, Tom



That is where I got the idea from. Their sights look good, but I can't get myself to buy them when I got a shop at home. I will try my hand at a few prototypes. I have to order som 4130 steel rectangular barstock and some flat stock.

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Life is for Service

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: Tatume]
      #110327 - 24/07/08 10:46 AM

Quote:

You might want to check out New England Custom Gun first. You will have to compete with them and their quality and prices. I'd love to see more sights on the market, so don't think I'm trying to discourage you.

http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/

Take care, Tom



--------------------
Life is for Service

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5501
Loc: United States
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110338 - 24/07/08 01:17 PM

Tarawa, the thing I'd like to see is a reasonably priced full band front sight that could be installed by a kitchen table operator like me.

Something like the Ruger front sight is what I'm referring to.

I like a front sight on a rifle even if there is no open rear, as a receiver sight can prezeroed and packed with the gun for a spare if the scope is damaged.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #110339 - 24/07/08 01:21 PM

Yes, and make the front sight a Ruger banded type with a hood. Use the big white bead like a NECG.

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One day at a time...

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WCF
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Reged: 06/05/06
Posts: 61
Loc: georgia
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #110369 - 25/07/08 01:00 AM

Along these same lines, I have contemplated making a set of claw mount bases with rings. I'm using a set off a Mauser BA for a pattern. I know that these are available elsewhere but maybe I could produce a set that would be reasonable and available to all those buiding rifles.
Just a thought.

wcf

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buckbrush
.300 member


Reged: 23/08/07
Posts: 120
Loc: Alberta
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: WCF]
      #110393 - 25/07/08 02:48 PM

Most custom sights and scope bases are made from 12L14 not 4130

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: buckbrush]
      #110410 - 26/07/08 12:10 AM

Quote:

Most custom sights and scope bases are made from 12L14 not 4130



Thanks...I just ordered some per your recommendations.

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110411 - 26/07/08 12:27 AM

I have never dealt with express sights before. Is there a flat spring on the bottom to keep tension on the flip up sights? I have another idea in mind, but was just wondering.

--------------------
Life is for Service

Edited by tarawa (26/07/08 12:28 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110453 - 26/07/08 11:29 AM

The 3 leaf rear sight is the one I put on my .69 cal. sporting rifle. Brownell's sells them separately from the base as that's how and where I bought mine. In 1986, it was $94.00 - $165.00 landed here. Yes- it was expensive back then, not so much now.
; The point blank sight is zero'd for 100 meters with the hunting charge. The first leaf is also a shallow "V" with a small knotch in the middle, zero'd for 150 meters, while the second leaf is zero'd for 200 meters. The last leaf is zero'd for 300 meters for the steel plate we shot at local rendezvous until politicaly motivated police orders made us shorten the range to 300. The 300 meters leaf has come into it's own at other rendezvous and makes hitting at long range quite easy. Load 165gr. 2F in a 14 bore rifle, 480gr. RB in pure lead, cloth patch while 466gr. in WW metal, paper ctg. for fast 8 second re-load and shot - yes- an easy 7 shots per minute, better than the .69 cal. muskets used by the US military in the 18th and 19th centuries, and from a .69 cal. rifle, yet one capable of 1-1/2MOA accuracy off the bench with that load.


Edited by Daryl_S (26/07/08 11:37 AM)

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oupa
.300 member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110496 - 27/07/08 03:27 AM

Quote:

I have never dealt with express sights before. Is there a flat spring on the bottom to keep tension on the flip up sights? I have another idea in mind, but was just wondering.



Yes, and no. I've seen them with both flat springs and coils. Interestingly, while having some time to kill one afternoon this week I tried my hand at this very task. I used 1/2X1/2 inch stock and a coil spring. Mucked it up in the end but I believe it could be fairly easily done by someone with patience and a steady hand.

Milled the rough shape from the bar stock. The "standing leaf" was left double thickness at first. The recess for the (single) folding leaf was milled out of the front of this leaf with a 1/4 inch end mill - in from the front then in from the top of the standing leaf to clean-up and square the notch. I then drilled a hole to just fit the spring straight down into the bottom of this notch. The sides were then cut down to form the "hinge." I then cut a rough leaf from flat stock so it just fit the recess, clamped it together and drilled the hinge pin hole through the bolsters on the standing leaf and the tail of the folding leaf at the same time. The spring was cut to fit the recess drilled for it while putting (slight) pressure on the folding leaf in both positions. The thickness of the base only allows for about one coil worth of compression in the spring so go slow! The front edge of the folding leaf will need to be radiused to ease it over the spring when folding up or down but don't go too far or it will be loose in both positions. You want a FLAT contact with the spring as large as practicle.

In the end I made a slip of the file, which ruined my proto-type sight. Alas, the recent heat wave, my big fingers and lack of sleep of late aren't so conducive to such fine work!!! It'll take patience and a light touch my friend. In the end I doubt such one-off sights can be marketed cheaper than similar mass produced ones can be bought. Check out Jeff's Outfitters. The link is in the supply thread at the top of this section. Best of luck should you decide to proceed!!!

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: oupa]
      #110505 - 27/07/08 08:10 AM

Thanks for all the info and encouragement. I am looking forward to receiving the materials.

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Life is for Service

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110543 - 27/07/08 08:35 PM

Tarawa,
Most of the folding leaf sights that I have seen and used have flat springs inletted into recesses in the bottom of the sight body and then permanently swaged closed over both sides at the rear or heavier end of the flat springs. I just about messed one of these sights up trying to remove the pin from one of the leaves. The pins are just a little bigger in diameter than a straight pin and are very hard to remove and worse to put back in. I was attempting to conture the outside profile of the leaves and did get it done, but not without a lot of trouble. Bob H.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #110547 - 28/07/08 12:22 AM

All of the Express sights I've seen, have flat springs underneath. I've never seen a coil in one.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: DarylS]
      #110561 - 28/07/08 06:50 AM

I am looking for some flat spring stock now.

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
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Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110566 - 28/07/08 08:52 AM

WCF

I just took delivery of a batch of Claw mounts and rings from one of the large German suppliers.

They have profiles to fit dozens of recievers as well as heights etc..Hundreds of options.

You cannot build them for what I paid for them.

Same with express sights and bases.

Regards.

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: Bramble]
      #110580 - 28/07/08 12:57 PM

After paying over $230.00US for a set of low fixed rings (from a large German supplier)to fit my Remington (Baikal) DR, I realized that there are no bargains coming from Europe these days. A set of fixed rings from most of the US makers are well under $100.00US. I don't know why Remington didn't have Baikal uses a different set-up for scope rings on the guns using the Remington name for the US market.
Once set-up, I know I can make make a set of sights way less than what I paid for those rings. Material wise probably many sets of sights.

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DarylS
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Posts: 26489
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Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110621 - 29/07/08 02:00 AM

A scope on a DR? Irons will handle any game within the rifle's capabilty, imho, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Bramble
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Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: DarylS]
      #110648 - 29/07/08 08:33 AM

With the greatest of respect.

IMO

Without investing a fortune in CNC machinery there is no way that one can make a set of mounts (low fixed rings)or any other , finish them pack them and retail them for $ 230.00, let alone $ 100.00.
The shaping, boreing, drilling tapping, etc on manual machinery will take hours, then there is the polishing and blueing.

skilled machinest Labour runs £ 60-£75 (120 - 150 $ ) per hour.
Overheads ( power, light, tooling, cutting fluids, machine wear, heating, rent, rates (property taxes ), admin, phones, stationary, advertising run at ??

It has just taken me a day to make and fit a quater rib to a takedown .404. That is a £ 600.00 item. I can buy one (not the shape I want but nevertheless) for £ 45.00.
It took me longer than the cost of that stock item, to grind the cutter to the correct radius for the barrel and put the job in the mill and true it up !!

It cannot be done as a business unless they are custom one offs for specific tasks.
As a hobby thing where labour is free, then more power to you.

Regards

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: Bramble]
      #110673 - 29/07/08 03:21 PM

I completely agree with Bramble.

I've made millions of parts. By far almost all (by percentage) of them were on big-dollar high-tech equipment, in concert with high-buck, high profile businesses.

I have also ventured to do short production runs of special items, but you have to have your immediate market nailed and be prepared to do it as a favor for the community you're serving the product to as profit will likely be pretty slim to none. Prepare yourself for wages below minimum wage on little jobs like this express rifle sight idea.

There's good reason that from period to period, the express sights from neighboring gun and rifle makers looked awfully similar.


--Tinker

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: DarylS]
      #110683 - 29/07/08 09:16 PM

Daryl,
Apparently you haven't seen the sights that Baikal puts on their DR. Front sight is something that resembles an AK47 sight and the back sight has a lot to be desired. I had a hard time seeing the sights let alone hitting the target. As I get older, my bad eyesight is my main problem, but that 1.5 power scope sure helps me!

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Life is for Service

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110684 - 29/07/08 09:23 PM

If I can come up with a decent sight (an that is a big "if") it will be as a favor to the Nitro Express community. I have had a home machine shop for years, and I rarely make a penny on anything. It's a good thing that I have a day job!

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Life is for Service

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
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Re: Express Sight Interest? [Re: tarawa]
      #110687 - 30/07/08 12:30 AM

Nope - haven't seen one. Why not replace them with something in an iron you can see. Most double rifles have centre ribs.

Centre ribs can be dovetailed to allow inletting sights.

There are many different 'express sights' out there, some quite reasonable in price, that can be mounted in the rib.
I don't see a problem as I have never been shy about changing sights I didn't like. Being handy with your hands and a few tools is all that's necessary. I just take for granted that all men have minor skills. My fault -
sorry - I do know people who can barely sight in a scope by themselves and run to someone else to mount it for them.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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