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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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BGReed
.224 member


Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 8
want to build a 4 bore rifle
      #10943 - 05/03/04 02:44 PM

I recently read an article over on african hunter by John Millar who built himself a 4 Bore double building such a rifle has been on my mind for a number of years since I used to earn my living as a gunsmith. I have attempted to contact Mr. Millar through African hunter without reply.

If any of you may have an idea where I might find diemensional information about 4 bore or John if you watch this site please contact me.

thanks

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: BGReed]
      #10957 - 05/03/04 07:05 PM

BGReed--There is no standard established for the bore sizes and cartridge dimensions, for what is called 4 bores.
The bores range from .935 up to 1.025. And the base
sizes are all over the place too.I would like to
get some info from him also.
I am starting to build 4 bore brass from 20 mm cases and want to work with others,to get a size somewhat standardized, for all new ones. Two others here need cases
for the Tula pump 4 bore shot guns they have.I will post
a picture of a 4 bore case I just completed, this weekend,
along with dimensions.Ed.

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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BGReed
.224 member


Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 8
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: hubel458]
      #11025 - 06/03/04 12:34 PM

ED,

Just so you know I live just a little south of Grand Rapids, MI.

In his article John chose to use a bore diamater of .962 and turned his brass on a lathe using shotgun primers and pyrodex powder about 400grains behind an 1850 grain lead bullet.

His barrels were 12 groove with one twist in 66" when finished the double weighed in at 24lbs.

Also I have found that Huntington has 4 bore brass available at $35.00 ea.

Gregg

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: BGReed]
      #11040 - 06/03/04 03:23 PM

BG- Do you have the specs on that brass for the bore
and case? And who made it,Is is drawn or machined?Is it
on their site?
We can make it for 40% of that price or less.I told
Big Al $8 to $14 depending on what we had to do..Here is pic of one I just made.It is 4th in the picture.For Karl's
friend I included a 30-06 1st for comparison, 458 Win
2nd, 700 HE 3rd, 4 Bore 4th, and 1000 He last.This 4 Bore
case is .975 bore(Can be made from .935 to 1.025),Rim is 1.160 inches, and .85 in thick for headspace.Neck 1.015.
Base is 1.078 and can't go smaller without a 2 inch dies
and hydraulic press(Huge investment).Ross' Evans is .975.
Millar's is smaller, and Mickey's Imperial is .983. I favor on all new ones going to 1.000, so as to get closer to actual 4 bore size and it is the easiest size to make,
from the brass. This is tough drawn brass that will last a lifetime.I am 80 miles NE of GR.Ed.



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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BGReed
.224 member


Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 8
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: hubel458]
      #11080 - 07/03/04 03:18 AM

Ed,

I haven't called them yet to find out what the spec on the case is or what actual diameter bullet is is made to take although any other time I have seen anything about a 4 bore the brass was machined. Probably because of the cost of dies.

As for bore dimension from my meger understanding it was mainly the muzzleloading 4's that were actually a full 1" bore diameter. Why diameters changed when brass and breechloaders came along I have no idea. Probably because there was nothing like SAAMI specs at the time and each maker just kind of made it up as they went along. Kind of like what we are trying to do. I also believe that this will remain the case until someone decides that there is enough market interest in such a piece to standardize diemensions.

As for your brass it looks really great I especilly like the idea that it is drawn rather than machined as for rim and head dimensions when bulding a custom rifle of this variety you can have your chamber reamer made to fit any diemension that you would desire. As a matter of fact I wonder if a company like JGS would have a print for such an animal. I know the reamer will probably be in excess of $300.00. Oh as for your brass can you make a length at least 41/4 inches long as that is what is required case length? Or did I read your post incorrectly and shorter is the problem? Are you using a shotgun primer or a 50BMG primer to ignite the powder? Are you using jacketed or hard cast lead as your bullet as this would definitly effect number of barrel groove and twist rate?

Man so much to discuss so many ideas.

Gregg

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: BGReed]
      #11085 - 07/03/04 05:47 AM

Gregg-My case will be 4.1 inches long.But that is better
than Big Al's Tula which is about an inch shorter.
Ross' Evans is 4 inches.The 1906 book specs are 4 inches.
..Talked to Al today and we hope to get something going.
You should call me, it would be easier,as I want to get this standardized, and help folks get into 4 bores.
Whether I build the brass or show them how, which I
will do.I am using BMG primers, with sleeve put in the case to adapt them.I have cheap toll free number 1-877-551-2605. Call anytime. Ed.

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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**DONOTDELETE**





Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: BGReed]
      #11088 - 07/03/04 06:22 AM

Actually the idea of making a break action single shot 4 bore is appealing to me. Fabricating the action is rather straight forward, but who is manufacturing 4 bore barrels?

Scott

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BGReed
.224 member


Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 8
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: ScottS]
      #11093 - 07/03/04 09:44 AM

Scott.

As we speak er post a friend of mine is in the process of building a barrel making machine. This will be cut rifling rather than buttom( I know all the pro vs con on this part of the subject but if it shoots well who cares) anyway he is very interested in this project.

For me the biggest problem is figuring the proper diemension of the action and how to build a set of rebounding hammers etc.

Ed I'll give you a call this week to talk sure wish Millar would show up since he's built one could really answer a lot of those nagging questions.

Gregg

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: BGReed]
      #11102 - 07/03/04 12:06 PM

Gregg--I would say the barrel would have to be about
1.8 inches in diameter at breech to take higher pressures.
So you could work from that to scale a break action.
I would do it monoblock style so all he has to do is barrel and you screw it into the monoblock.Have threads 1.5 in.
Now if you don't want to build action, you could get a
BORCHARDT FALLING BLOCK. They are big enough.
Cut rifling is fine and it is easier to do.Example-For a 1 inch bore if using jacketed bullets, you need .012 rifling I think, so the land diameter
would be .988...Sounds like a great deal, as your friend
will get more work than he needs.Ed.

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: hubel458]
      #11127 - 08/03/04 01:53 AM

Ed,

Who makes 4 bore rifled barrels commercially? Any idea? The action that I would make, would basically be a scaled up H&R break action. Since this action is mine, and mine only, I don't particularly care if the hammer is rebounding. Although I may fit a rib extention with a Greener bolt for added strength. This is envisioned more as a fun project than a serious one, and more than likely strictly BP or equivalent.

So I ask again, who is commercially making 4 bore rifled barrels?

Thanks,
Scott

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BGReed
.224 member


Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 8
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: ScottS]
      #11148 - 08/03/04 08:46 AM

Scott,

As far as I know nobody manufactures a 4 bore barrel that is why any that i have read about have had to make their own.

However if you were to contact one of the barrel makers I'm sure they would be willing to make you one for a price.

As I said in an earlier post a friend of mine is in process of building a barrel making machine, once Bob is up and rolling I'm sure he would be happy to turn one out for you.

Gregg

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GG375
.333 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: BGReed]
      #11266 - 10/03/04 12:26 AM


Guys

About 6 weeks ago I was in the workshop of Watson Bros in London and in a rack that contained all there work were a pair of 4 bore barrels (chopper lump) ready to be made into a double rifle. Don't know if this info is of any use to you but thought I would pass it on anyway.

GG

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: GG375]
      #11274 - 10/03/04 04:33 AM

GG375

Do you have a web address or a email for Watson Bros.? I have one and would like some information on it.

Thanks,

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: mickey]
      #11287 - 10/03/04 10:33 AM

Krieger has made 4 bore barrels, and they are getting info
for me about what they can do and prices in next few days...Ed.

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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GG375
.333 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: mickey]
      #11335 - 10/03/04 04:30 PM


Mickey

Sorry, no email or web address but here is the phone # and physical address. The guy to speak to is Michael Luca.

Watson Bros
39 Redcross Way
London Bridge
SE1 1HG
England
020 7403 3367

GG

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: GG375]
      #11338 - 10/03/04 05:03 PM

Thanks, I'll call him.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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mcb
.224 member


Reged: 18/12/03
Posts: 24
Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: mickey]
      #11414 - 12/03/04 12:30 AM

Not sure if you guys have read this article. You probably have but if not here a link to a nice story about the creation of 4-bore side by side.

http://www.african-hunter.com/4-bore_part_i.htm

I would love to have one but I think the price is a little out of my reach right now.

mcb

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BGReed
.224 member


Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 8
Re: want to build a 4 bore rifle [Re: mcb]
      #11495 - 14/03/04 01:39 PM

ED,

I have found a book on the lock work for rifles with hammers.

Rebounding Lock for the Side Hammer Gun by Louis Cherepy Sr.
It's on order and I'm waiting for it's arrival. Found it at
www.denner.ca/books/.com

Gregg

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