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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
cross bolt or not to cross bolt
      #155095 - 28/02/10 03:45 PM

i have a CZ 458 at sci the rep said it should be cross bolted to send it in they will do it for free also to metal bed it because it should have been done that way okay thats good.but why does a 460 weatherby or the 378 lack cross bolts,hum and i have a 700 in 375 in a synthetic stock again not cross bolts with at least a thousand pills through it.a 300 wby no cross bolts.and never any stock damage and my doubles get pounded but no damage to the stock.again confused any help to educate me

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: bwananelson]
      #155104 - 28/02/10 04:20 PM

I will cross bolt any rifle I own above .338. Better to have the stock remain in once piece than (may) have to have it replaced.

I have two cross bolts in my lightweight 9.3x62 and the last place I want it to split is whilst on an expensive Hunt in Africa or the Northern Teritory.

I have ordered a 458WM and it will be cross bolted as well. I think of it like travel insurance, handy when you need it.

Edited by tophet1 (28/02/10 04:22 PM)

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: tophet1]
      #155123 - 28/02/10 09:04 PM

Modern CZs aren't as good as the Brnos that they are based on, particularly in the stock (and bedding) department. A few years ago the CZ550 magnums did not have cross bolts and the 458WM and 416Rigby were splitting stocks, so they started fitting cross bolts. They also recommend having the action bedded, as a precaution. I certainly found that my new CZ550 in 375H&H was making contact at the recoil lug under the rear sight base instead of the front action lug. I bedded it. I don't think 375s were splitting stocks but you can see the symtomatic problems with what's coming out of the CZ factory these days.

I still like the CZs since they are good value, but you need to spend some time or money addressing the bedding issues. I also have a CZ550 in 458, which has the notorious jamming problem (2nd last round in the magazine) as did many of the Brno 602s in this cartridge - but this is a different story. I still like the CZs anyway. I mean to buy a decent big bore new, or build one up, costs a few thousand dollars - the CZ550s are a bargain starting point.

In summary, get the cross bolts installed and get the bedding done.

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ovny
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Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #155142 - 01/03/10 05:06 AM

My 458 Lott (a Ceska Safari Magnum) is the cross bolts. I think they are necessary when firing powerful cartridges, but I think it's more important to have a good bedding.

Oscar.

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I am Spanish

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: ovny]
      #155158 - 01/03/10 09:26 AM

with that theory why no cross bolts on a 460 weatherby a wimp by no means a 300 ultra mag no lugs

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: bwananelson]
      #155175 - 01/03/10 02:40 PM

It's a CZ quality issue - as issued from the factory, their stock bedding (and probably even the stocks themselves) are really not fit for purpose (I understand that Olin will replace broken stocks under warranty if the rifle hasn't otherwise been modified, as they should. Still a hassle for the owner though.). If the bedding and cross bolts aren't done then chances are high that the stock will split.

The Brno 602s never had the cross bolts but they were bedded properly at the factory (no bedding material, just proper fitting of the stock to the metalwork, and I think they were better quality timber too) and, as far as I'm aware, didn't have stock splitting issues attributable to poor quality.

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #155226 - 01/03/10 10:27 PM

Even the best bedding is no guarantee against stock splits. Any wood-stocked rifle 30-06 and up can split the stock. Brownells sells a kit for repairing splits. It can be used on a sound stock to prevent the split from ever occurring.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=617/Product/STOCK_REPAIR_PIN_KIT

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Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: Tatume]
      #155256 - 02/03/10 07:38 AM

I can't see a good reason to not cross-bolt a wood-stocked .458/lott/.460

My Whitworth has been bolted with two cross-bolts, bedded with devcon steel, and it is ultra stable and accurate.


The operation is a one-time cheap insurance policy and the bolt heads can be capped flush with ebony plugs for a smooth-handling and durable external finish.
That's what I did with mine, there's nothing in the way of my hands and I don't have to think about stock splits.


Synthetic stocks don't have the same issue with splitting that wood stocks have, and I can't imagine a good answer as to why someone (anyone) wouldn't cross-bolt a .460Wby





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Con
.333 member


Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: bwananelson]
      #155262 - 02/03/10 11:01 AM

Quote:

with that theory why no cross bolts on a 460 weatherby



Internal, some also have bedding blocks which extend into a wrist pin style extension that runs down under the tang and into the wrist of the stock.

All Rem700s (even the cheap Sportsman 78 series!) in wooden stocks are pinned, as were many post 64 Winchesters from memory.

You don't have to be as obvious as external crossbolts ... some Vanguards also have an internal crossbolt epoxied behind the recoil lug.

There's more than one way to skin a cat!
Cheers...
Con

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ovny
.375 member


Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: Con]
      #155699 - 07/03/10 07:36 PM

I've got a butt of a 416 Rigby Ceska and only takes a cross bolt in the back on the handle or so. I want to put in 458 Lott, it is straight and bringing the rifle range is curve (loin of wild boar) and I do not know if it will affect the time to feel the recoil of Lott.

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I am Spanish

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86thecat
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Reged: 14/07/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Black Hills SD, USA
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: ovny]
      #157776 - 29/03/10 04:40 PM

No matter how well the action recoil lug and barrel recoil lug are bedded the energy of a big bore has to get to the butt of the stock. Almost all the force is transferred to the stock in front of the magazine area, wood behind the tang is normally relieved and carries little load. Take a good look inside the magazine area of a stock and you will see that most of the wood has been machined away leaving two thin side plates with only a small island of cross grain wood, behind that is the cutout for the trigger assembly. Under load, the sides have little option but to bow out away from the mag box, stressing weak cross grain. Properly placed cross bolts make the most sense to contain the force, keeping the stock from splitting while transferring the energy back to the butt where it can work its magic on your shoulder.

Ovny, My CZ 458 only came from the factory with one cross bolt behind the trigger. I bought it used and the stock was already split. After repairing the split with epoxy, I installed a second cross bolt through the little bit of wood just in front of the trigger assembly, and added a third cross bolt just behind the action recoil lug. Also epoxy bedded the action into the stock. The cross bolts are 5/16 inch bronze threaded rod epoxied in place. There are shallow counter bores filled with black epoxy to give a finished appearance, similar to an ebony plug. Not professional gunsmith work, but the stock was already cracked and dinged when I bought it. It is holding up fine after 150+ rounds of Lott level ammunition. I believe the CZ Lott needs three cross bolts.

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ovny
.375 member


Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: cross bolt or not to cross bolt [Re: 86thecat]
      #157782 - 29/03/10 06:36 PM

Well, I take note of the advice and I appreciate the information. I will pray budget to see how much the added two more screws and bedding.

Oscar.

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I am Spanish

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