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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
need knowledge of rifle building
      #10984 - 06/03/04 03:12 AM

To Whoever will help,

I am completely new to this site. (so please excuse my ignorance) Just found it while brousing. I live in the North/East of the USA. I will never get to Africa unless I have a rich uncle that I don't know about. BUT....I am completely in love with books on Africa, guns for DG and anyone foolish enough to talk about such things with me. (We all like to dream, right?) I do live in a state where moose hunting is legal and I hope to return to the ranch in Idaho someday, (elk) so there is at least some hope to fire a large bored rifle at a big animal.

Having said all of that, I would like some of you to give advice on a rifle. I have an Enfield '17 action, (made by Remington) and I thought that I was going to make it into a .35 Whelen, but now I am thinking a 416 Rigby. Why Not? I have several rifles already, do not NEED another, I just WANT another one. I have never made a rifle before, so some say I'm crazy to do it, especially this large of a cartridge, but I do have the assistance of a good smith. Question is, where can I get the information on such a subject?

I need answer for questions like;
Do you have to lengthen the opening for the long cartridges like the 416 Rigby?

What is the largest, most powerful cartridge that this action will SAFELY take?

Where can I get blueprints of this action?

Please help, other websites have left me wondering, I think that this site is the place to get the answers. ANY, help will be greatly
appreciated.

Thank you, Kevin





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deant
.224 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 47
Re: need knowledge of rifle building [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11000 - 06/03/04 04:59 AM

Kevin
Might want to think about 458lott instead of Rigby you will find it quite a bit cheaper to shoot.(can use 45/70 bullets hornady factory loads for it so dies and brass are quite a bit cheaper) I am building a 470 capstick on an enfield action now. Learning as I go.
You have to build a new mag box and if it tucks up into the action I believe it must be opened a touch. I made my box like a mauser so it doesnt tuck in and I dont think ill have to open it up if I do it will be very little. The action is 3.710 inches the 458lott is 3.6 col.
Im not sure but for the Rigby you might need the P14 bolt. The 1917 enfield is the action for the big stuff Im told. Looking for another myself.
Dean


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Robgunbuilder
.275 member


Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 64
Re: need knowledge of rifle building [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11002 - 06/03/04 05:13 AM

Why you want to spend the money on a M1917, versus just buying a $650 CZ550 in .416 Rigby is obviously a personal choice. However, here is what needs to be done. First make sure your remington is a sound action and not swiss cheezed with scope mount holes. Get yourself a P-14 bolt. Open up the boltface to .593 and deepen it about .003.The rim on a .416 Rigby is about .065. File the bolt rim till a .416 Rigby case will easily slip up under the extractor, don't cut into the boltface while doing this.. You'll also have to reshape the extractor somewhat. Buy a sheet metal mag box from Numrich arms that will fit the .416 Rigby. Fit it to a Flat triggerguard. Don't use that military one.
Now for the fun part you need to make a fixture to hold the action in the milling vise upside down. Now with a carbide 3/8 ball mill, open up the rear of the action and the bottom rails till a .416 Rigby will just drop in.You need to tilt the head about 8 degrees to do this. Machine the bottom of the action to fit the new mag box. You will probably also have to take out about .075 from the front. To do this tilt the action at about 45 degrees and cut a new ramp at the same time. Be carefull here ! You'll also have to mill back the bolt stop so the bolt will travel back further. This about covers how to enlarge the action without going into the fine details of exactly how it's done. Now with FILES only, you begin to open the rails and shape the ramp till a .416 Rigby will slide up into the chamber without binding. If you have even fair mechanical ability and DON'T use a DREMEL Tool, you will figure it out pretty fast. You will also need to make or buy a new follower that fits the .416 Rigby.
As for a barrel, get one from Pac-Nor and remember a 1917 Enfield uses Square threads. Next cone the barrel, chamber and headspace. Finally again using the mill, make the extractor cut. Of course you will now want to fit a cock on open kit since you cut into the spring recess while opening up the action. I also assume you've reshaped the action to get rid of the ears first. Oh yes you'll need a stock that has to be crossbolted and a recoil lug also needs to be fitted to the barrel. A .416 Rigby needs NECG open sight and a front barrel band ( all from NECG). All told, your looking at about $1000 if you do all the work yourself and probably $2500( and way up) if someone else does it.
That CZ550 sure looks attractive now! Given all this work and expense, why not build a real Big Bore wildact like a 470 MBOGO, 500 A2 a 585 NYATI or a .600 Overkill. The amount of work on the action won't be any more and you'll be able to easily justify the cost!
For what it's worth, I've done 5 Big Bore Enfield conversions. Never Again. It was fun learning how, but in the end it was not worth my time and a reworked Enfield is still a reworked Enfield with very little resale value. If you can afford it just bite the bullet and start with a CZ550 .416 Rigby action and barrel it yourself to a bigger caliber. By the way the 500 A2 conversion is a total snap!! Hope this helps-Rob

Edited by Robgunbuilder (06/03/04 05:15 AM)


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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Re: need knowledge of rifle building [Re: deant]
      #11004 - 06/03/04 05:18 AM

DeanT,
That's good information, thank you for answering, I'll check into the Lott cartridge. I have another Enfield '17 rifle, also made by Remington, (The action) It is a 300 Win. magnum. As is, the gun is only worth about $350 U.S., but someday, it too may get changed to a larger bored rifle. Or I might sell it as-is.

Thanks again, Kevin


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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Re: need knowledge of rifle building [Re: Robgunbuilder]
      #11005 - 06/03/04 05:25 AM

Robgunbuilder,
Thanks, that's what I needed, more food for thought. So now you have me wondering why a 500 A2 is a "snap." And, what exactly is a 500 A2?


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Robgunbuilder
.275 member


Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 64
Re: need knowledge of rifle building [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11187 - 08/03/04 05:32 PM

THe 500 A2 is a 460 WBY blown out to .50 caliber. There are a few versions of it out there but A-square and the .510 wells are essentially the same thing. This is one mean cartridge . You can drive a 600 gr bullet at 2500 fps with IMR4064. You can throat the chamber so that you can load and shoot 650 gr .50BMG ball or 750 gr Hornady A-max's. It's got tremendous versatility. Based on what you have to do to open a Enfield up to a .416 Rigby, why not go for a 500 A2 instead. On a CZ550 basically you can order a pre threaded short chambered barrel in 500 A2 and be in operation in about 2 hrs. It takes very little experience to make a CZ550 that starts as a .416 Rigby action into one. I've built a couple of 500 A2's and they are slick. Look in A-squares manual for more information.-Rob

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: need knowledge of rifle building [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11633 - 16/03/04 10:18 AM

In reply to:

It is a 300 Win. magnum.




if you want to have some fun with this rifle, here's what you do....

buy a bunch of ammo, and shoot the snot out of it... figure a year or two at 50-rounds/week and the barrel will be toast. then, tear it down, and re-barrel it to 358 Norma Mag... shouldn't need much, if any magazine work, and you'll havea killer AND unique chambering that will humiliate a lot of the competition...

of course, I'm a .358/.375 guy in the first place, but I already have a custom Whelen and a 375H&H, so the norma is a bit redundant.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)


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