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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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mbogo3
.275 member


Reged: 26/03/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Alberta Canada
Marlin 45-70 handload
      #199046 - 09/01/12 01:17 PM

As luck would have it sighted 2" high at 100 yards the thick part of the bottom plex reticule [fixed 4X Leupold]is bang on at 200 yards.....Harold

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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: mbogo3]
      #199055 - 09/01/12 06:25 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Wow, very impressive, both Rifle and Shooter!
What ever you do Harold, don't ever sell that rifle!!!

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: Homer]
      #199076 - 10/01/12 03:14 AM

That's really excellent accuracy for a lighter deer load, mbogo3. You didn't say which model you have.

Most Marlins shoot as well as bolt guns - if they are shot by a good bench shooter. They are quite incredible in any calibre.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: mbogo3]
      #199086 - 10/01/12 08:40 AM

Can you please advise what OAL you used for that load?

Thank you

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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mbogo3
.275 member


Reged: 26/03/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: Ripp]
      #199363 - 13/01/12 05:47 PM

It's a Marlin 1895 straight stock no cross bolt safety model made in 1978 with micro-groove rifling.The OAL for the 300gr Hornady load is 2.55" haven't chronied it yet but somewhere around 1800fps.Pleasant to shoot and accurate.I'm going to work on a 350gr Hornady moose/elk/bear load and have a 405gr RCBS GC mold as well.With micro-groove barrels they need to be cast 2/1000" over bore size and hard like wheel weights....some water quelch them to harden more..............Harold

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: mbogo3]
      #199378 - 14/01/12 02:01 AM

RE#7 works well for full power loads, as does H4198. H322 is another good powder for them.

My friend uses 49.0gr. Re#7 with 400gr. Barnes. That is an over 2,000fps load in his Stainless 18 1/2" guide gun, some 150fps faster than Speer's book. It is only a 28,00psi load, according to Speer. His rifle runs it up a bit more, but it's more than safe in the Marlin and a GREAT bear load.

The 350gr., FN or RN Hornadys are really find moose/elk bullets when driven around or over 2,000fps.
The Hodgdon Annual Manual contains some excellent data for the various strength levels of the .45/70.

Using Re#7, IMR8208XBR, IMR3031, IMR4198 and H4198, you can exceed 2,100fps in the Marlin without exceeding 40,000psi, still well below the Marlin's 43,000psi max. pressure range. H4198 will almost make 2,200fps with them.

I used a 2,260fps load with a 350 Hornady from my .458 2" with good results on a big bull.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mbogo3
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Reged: 26/03/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: DarylS]
      #199386 - 14/01/12 04:10 AM

One this to be aware of is in some of the older data RL7 is not the same as present day RE#7 while power has it's place, accuracy and shooting comfort may also be a consideration for those of us with reoccurring body pain..........Ongoing fiddling with other loads will continue weather permitting.......Harold

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iomskp
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Reged: 10/11/08
Posts: 119
Loc: Cairns Queensland Australia
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: mbogo3]
      #199445 - 14/01/12 08:24 PM

Many years ago the load I used for my No1 45/70 was 41 grains of Rl7 pushing a 350 grain RN, I didn't chrono it but it was accurate and hell on pigs.

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mbogo3
.275 member


Reged: 26/03/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: iomskp]
      #199966 - 19/01/12 01:58 PM

With the windchill last night it was -50 C so I think I'll just put another log on the fire.Resized some .375H+H for a buddy today and glass bedded a broken shotgun stock...............Harold

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458Shooter
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Reged: 14/09/09
Posts: 47
Loc: Canada
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: mbogo3]
      #200386 - 23/01/12 04:21 PM

I use a 420 gc cast bullet over 40 grains of IMR 4198, it gets 1630 fps.
Either of the 4198 powders burn clean and very accurate. This load is only 8 inches low at 200 yds, I loaded up some more test rounds tonight at 41.5 grains of IMR 4198, I think I should be able to get about 1700 fps without any strain on gun parts or shooter parts.
My rifle is a pre Remington Marlin GS, it gets under an inch at 100 yards with this load combo. This will be the boomer my son wants to use to get his first bear come spring here in Canuckieville.

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GroovyMike
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Reged: 07/04/09
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Loc: NY
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: 458Shooter]
      #200410 - 24/01/12 12:12 AM

Very nice. I think I used H322 with a cast lead 405 grain for my moose. S/b +/- 1500 fps but kicks like hell.

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

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DarylS
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Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: GroovyMike]
      #200418 - 24/01/12 03:52 AM

H322 and both the 4198's are good. I found H322 to be VERY accurate in all my .45's over the years, but I obtained top ballistics with H335 and H4198 as well as IMR4198.

The ballistics below are given for a 24" bl. & are straight from Hodgdon. Everyone should purchase Hodgdon's Annual Mannual if you already don't have it - every year. It is the most up to date loading data out there.

Hodgdon lists, for the Lever Marlins, 350gr. Hornady:
IMR4198 - 50.0gr. for 2,131fps at 36,600cup
H4198 - 54.0gr. for 2,191fps at 39,300cup

They do not list H322 with the 350, but list it for the 300 and 400gr. bullets - with 300gr. 63.0gr. compressed for 2,252fps at 32,600cup. and 55.0gr. with the 400gr. at 1,984fps at 39,200cup.

These are full capacity loads - note that H322 is a bit slow burning to deliver top-end speeds and pressures for that rifle. Lackl of capacity beats it due much to the necessarily deeply seated bullets and 2.55" oal.

IMR 3031 and IMR8208XBR are sightly more suitable and deliver higher speeds, both also with compressed loads and sub-max pressures. Both of these run over 2,100fps with the 350gr. Hornady.

The Marlins have a ceiling of 43,000psi. Usually only the very fast powders like Re#7, the 4198's and ball or sperical powders like H335 are capable of delivering & exceeding this pressure level in that case. 43,000psi/cup is exceeded only for bolt guns and single shots like the Ruger.

Note in this ctg. psi and cup are actually the same number. That means 43,000cup is 43,000psi. This happens only rarely.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
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Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: DarylS]
      #200513 - 24/01/12 10:36 PM

The 45-70 is a cartridge that I shoot thousands of times per year. My favorite loads use LBT LFN bullets of 350 and 400 gr with mil surp powder. The 350 gr mold is a four-banger, and it keeps up with my bullet needs nicely. Muzzle velocities run 1500 - 1700 fps, depending on my mood, but usually in the mid 1500's. Accuracy is excellent. Cost to shoot is on par with 22 LR; the most expensive component is the primer (cases are old, old, old Starline that have long ago paid for themselves (case life is excellent with low-pressure loads, and resizing is easy too)).

I reload the cartridge on a Dillon 450 that I use in semi-progressive mode. Cases are run through the sizing and belling dies and collected into a loading tray. They are then charged with powder manually, and then run through the seating and crimping dies. The system works so well that I have two; the other Dillon 450 is set up for 454 Casull, of which I shoot many thousands also, and also with LBT LFN bullets (320 gr). The Freedom Arms 6" M83 is like another 45-70, by the way.

My enjoyment of this cartridge is so profound that I have purchased a second Winchester High Wall, this one with a 28" barrel. My first, which I shoot all the time, has a 24" barrel, Williams FP rear sight and XS Sights blade front sight. The new rifle, when it gets here, will receive a Lyman 20 MJT Globe front sight (already in my hands), but I haven't completely made up my mind about the rear, though I'm leaning towards a Lee Shaver Super Grade. My Marlin Guide Gun is tricked out with an XS Sights rear base, front blade sight, and Williams FP, and I have a scope and a red dot sight both sighted in that I can drop onto the rear base. Frankly, I use the alternate high-tech sights so little I may remove the rear base; the Williams FP is the sight I enjoy.

The 45 Govt. cartridge is such a wonderful, all-around cartridge that I can imagine doing without other centerfire rifle rounds. In fact, I'm thinking of getting a 250 gr hollow point mold and loading it to high speed with linotype bullets to use as a ground hog gun (I live in the Eastern US, and need groundhog bullets to fragment on impact).

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DarylS
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Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: Tatume]
      #200523 - 25/01/12 03:17 AM

That ought to kill them! You might be able to hit about 2,800fps if you really want to.

With the hard Blue, that alloy might just work. I used LBT Blue with WW loads in a .458 up to 2,300fps and maintained 1" accuracy and no leading. The lino and blue might just take the even higher speeds nicely.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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GroovyMike
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Reged: 07/04/09
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Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: DarylS]
      #200527 - 25/01/12 04:45 AM

I also had good results with IMR3031

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

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GroovyMike
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Reged: 07/04/09
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Loc: NY
Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: GroovyMike]
      #259504 - 27/01/15 06:12 AM

25 grains of H322 is a wonderful light plinker load, 30 grains of 3031 is a nice light hunting load and 46 grains of 3031 is a moose buster - all behind a 405 grain cast plain base lead bullet.

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Marlin 45-70 handload [Re: GroovyMike]
      #259511 - 27/01/15 09:46 AM

Tatume - I would try a Lyman mould in HP - maybe a pistol bullet and paper patch them to .457" - if the HP plug was enlarged and lengthened, causing the hole to run further in, at about 2,500fps or so, they should completely break up. Of course, this is speculative and would need a lot of testing.

High antimony content, as in Linotype, would be imperative to get the brittle nature needed.

The HighWall will of course, increase speeds over what one might expect in a lever gun.

I think RCBS still makes a DC with gas check in 300 or 320gr. weight. Years ago, I had one for my .45Colt M94. As it was rifle calibre, I had to lube, then size them down for the .45Colt's smaller bore and groove diameter.
I hollow-pointed the front cavity and thus cast a 320gr. flat nose gas check bullet as well as a HP every shot.
I used the HP bullets case in WW for elk, shooting 2 with it - worked well at 1,584fps, which duplicated the .45/90 BP load by Winchester.
That RCBS mould, if HP's might be a good one for the High Wall running 2,400fps or maybe more. The size of the HP hole could be large enough to get them down to 280gr., I suspect.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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