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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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RLI
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
.375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H
      #67546 - 20/12/06 10:36 PM

I was reading up on Ruger/Hornady bringing out the .375Ruger which has similar ballistics to the .375H&H but is it not just the .376Steyr re-invented?. I don't think either will topple the .375H&H any time soon.

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne


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Otto
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: RLI]
      #67550 - 20/12/06 11:38 PM

The 376 Steyr is dead as a hammer, but none-the-less is a very capable cartridge....one that makes lots of sense to me. I found the 376 to be perfectly sized for a military 98 Mauser, with only a tiny bit of work required to make feed with perfection. My 376 Mauser weighs just over 8 lbs and is noticably more comfortable to shoot than my 375 H&H rifles. Haven't sold my H&H rifles, but could do without losing capability. The new Ruger cartridge will gain nothing on the H&H, IMO.
Otto


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Toomany_Tools
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: Otto]
      #67551 - 21/12/06 12:41 AM

We've had a .375 round that feeds perfectly in the 98 Mauser without and modifications for a long, long time--the .375 Whelen. It's an excellent round, especially in the improved version, capable of easily 2700 fps with 250 grain bullets. Let's call the 375 Ruger exactly what it is--pure and simple a marketing ploy to sell people something "new" that they don't really need. Don't misunderstand me; there is absolutely nothing wrong with marketing something new as this is what keeps our economy strong. Just don't try to BS me into the idea that this new cartridge is the end-all-be-all that I've been waiting my entire life for.

--------------------
John Farner
Corrales, NM


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Boomer
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: Otto]
      #67555 - 21/12/06 01:04 AM

The advantages of a big game cartridge chambered in a rifle with a standard length action cannot be over looked. Interest in such a combination should give the new Ruger/Hornady cartridge a long run. I do not believe the Styer cartridge caught on because American hunters could not warm up to the rifle it was initially chambered in, and there was little reason for American arms makers to add a European cartridge to their already extensive chamberings. Without acceptance in the American market place, a new cartridge is unlikely to succeed.

If the American Arms makers began to chamber their rifles for the new .375 cartridge, and dropped the .375 H&H from their line, how long would it be before the grand old .375 H&H fell into obscurity, at least in a North American context? The vast majority of North American .375's will never see Africa, but the ballistics are more than suitable for bison, elk, moose, and the big bears at home.

--------------------



Edited by Boomer (21/12/06 01:05 AM)


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allenday
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: RLI]
      #67562 - 21/12/06 02:44 AM

I don't think that any other 375 is going to topple the 375 H&H, ever.

Even so, I fully intend to order a Ruger 77 Mark II (African version) in 375 Ruger. I want to see what it'll do, but I can comfortably state this in advance, that it'll be no better or worse than the rifle it's chambered in, and it'll be no more effective than the bullets you feed it.

I'm already skeptical of Hornady bullets for big bores, but this is not an issue if you reload........

AD


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hoppdoc
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: allenday]
      #67579 - 21/12/06 07:09 AM

I am interested in the 375 Ruger as a shorter, handier 375H&H!!

I can carry the same # of rounds and shoot them out a 20" barrel in a lighter more compact rifle I can carry all day.
It is fine for big bear and NA game in addition to Africa.

The 375 H&H will never go away and I am not going to sell mine.But the thought of a 375 Ruger in an all weather setup shooting North Fork bullets at 375 H&H velocities remains very appealing. My only concerns would be the pressures needed to achieve this.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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wellplugger
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: hoppdoc]
      #67586 - 21/12/06 08:12 AM

I agree with the above post saying that this is a marketing tool from Ruger, but I don't seem to mind so much. Being left handed kind of limits the number of choices you have in "interesting" rifles. My definition of interesting is something other than the standard 30/06, 270, 7 Mag/300 Mag and 243 that are generally offered by the majors in left hand. You lefties out there know how hard it is to come by a left hand, true magnum length Mod 70 or M98 suitable for the big bore, DG calibers. I know I can have anything I want if I have a big pocket book, but that is not the case. At least until Ed McMahon shows up at the door with my million dollar check or I win the lottery.

Please be advised that I am not throwing rocks at the old standby's listed above. They are all outstanding calibers with thousands in use world wide. I have a few myself. So, please don't take offense of my calling them "un-interesting".

So having said all that, the introduction of the 375 Ruger offers me a chance to take that relatively low priced and available 7mm Mag Mod 70 and convert it to an "interesting" caliber. Or better yet, maybe the majors will adopt this "newbie" and start offering it in left hand.

Additionally, as a reloader, I can take the soon to be easy to come by brass and experiment a little. Let's say we neck the brass up to 416 or 458 or down to 35. I'm sure this is being done as we speak. Who knows what might come out of it.

I am confident that the 375 H&H will never disappear. I don't plan on selling mine any time soon and would probably buy another if the price was right.

Anyway, that is my two cents and Merry Christmas to all and have a safe, happy New Year.


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mlg
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: wellplugger]
      #67591 - 21/12/06 08:27 AM

Firstly,I won,t be selling my Model 70 375 H&H for a Ruger 375!!

Secondly, I am sure it will be a capable cartridge if handloaded, but totaly without the charisma of the H&H.

No doubt that won,t worry some.


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Boomer
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: mlg]
      #67706 - 22/12/06 02:29 AM

I agree that with so many .375 H&H rifles out there it is unlikely the cartridge will disappear, but there once was the .300 H&H....

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Mike_McGuire
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: Boomer]
      #67728 - 22/12/06 09:52 AM

I think the 300 H&H dropping away is different for a couple of reasons.

It was the "velocity era", the 300 H&Hs were being rechambered to 300 Wby and 300 AckImp etc.

As best I can remember factory claimed ballistics for the 300 H&H were something like 2850 for the 180s and 3100 plus for the 150s. The 300 Win came out with initial factory claims of 3070 and I think 3390 or 3400 for 150 grainers.

In addition it is about 43 years since the 300 Win was introduced and that also means the 375 H&H has been around for a additional 43 years.

In the case of the 375 H&H, people just don't seem t interested in faster versions. I would bet plenty that Wby in those early days rechambered very few 375 H&Hs to 375 Wby. In fact Wby dumped the 375 Wby and went to the 378 Wby. Today, Wby does not even chamber the 375 Wby in a standard issue Wby rifle but Wby do chamber the 375 H&H in their Synthetic models.

Personally, I think the 375 H&H is seen as the "real thing"

On the other hand, the good news for Ruger and Hornady is that my track record on making such predictions is very close to being 100% wrong

Mike


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hoppdoc
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #67731 - 22/12/06 11:17 AM

I reslly enjoy my 375H&H.Good wood,open sights and an appearance that suggests Africa!

Combine this with its weight and recoil and it is the max the average hunter wants to shoot.Thus I feel it can be displaced by NOTHING.

For other gun people with more recoil tolernce the new 375 Ruger has appeal for a shorter lighter tool that will get the same job done.I wouldn't want a 375 H&H rifle convert with a synthetic stock and other mods. Just doesn't seem natural.No problem with the new caliber though. No "persona" to compare it to!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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DPhillips
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: hoppdoc]
      #67750 - 22/12/06 03:08 PM

One of the Alaskan writers spoke with Hornady today and got the following specs on the 375 Ruger...
Quote:

Length 2.500"
Rim diameter .532"
Base diameter .532"
Shoulder diameter .528"
C.O.A.L. 3.340"

I was also told that it holds 6 grains more powder than the longer H&H case and will send a 300 grain bullet @2660 fps from a 24"




So, it definitely isn't a redone 376 Steyr, has a small increase in case capacity over the 375 H&H and uses a standard length action. I don't think it renders the grand patriarch obsolete, but could be an interesting alternative for those that want a standard length action and the performance of the H&H. There seems to be the demand out there because the 375 Taylor is still doing well as a wildcat. I think it will do fairly well. I also think its offspring, which I suspect will be 7mm, 300, 338, 416 and 458, might seem some limited popularity - some more than others.


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mlg
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: DPhillips]
      #67764 - 22/12/06 03:54 PM

The Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan would not be a bad working rifle except for 2 things - the 20" barrel and the front sling swivel fitted on the forend of the stock. With an 8 lb 375 thats going to cut some hands!

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allenday
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: mlg]
      #67813 - 23/12/06 02:49 AM

If someone purchases the African version in 375 Ruger and it proves to shoot well, function well, etc., and is a keeper, they could always restock with a synthetic if they preferred it instead of wood.

I strongly prefer synthetic stocks myself, and my own 375 H&H wears a McMillan handle. No, it's not "traditional" (how DOES "tradition" ever become "tradition" in the first place?) but it surely is rugged and stable, and it has surely worked just as well in hot, dry Africa has it has on spring bear hunts in BC as well as rainy elk hunts here in Oregon -- better than archaic oiled wood, that's for darned sure.

AD


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jsl3170
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: allenday]
      #67826 - 23/12/06 03:33 AM

Hello,

I want to cast my two cents after posting myself recently about this cartridge. An article I read suggested the hitch with the caliber is its 60,000 psi which is probably how they can get the velocity etc to match the 375 H and H if my understanding of ballistics is correct. For this reason it probably won't do so well in hotter climes where pressure concerns are very real. A previous poster has it right - another marekting ploy by another gunmaker to get people to buy another gun. I am having a 375 H and H built on an Empire Mauser action b/c of its versatility, utility, worldwide availability of ammo and b/c it is simply the world standard for game rifles.

Merry Christmas.


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allenday
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: jsl3170]
      #67831 - 23/12/06 04:06 AM

An Empire Mauser in 375 H&H should be one fantastic rifle...........

AD


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AdamTayler
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: DPhillips]
      #67855 - 23/12/06 07:08 AM

Quote:

I think it will do fairly well. I also think its offspring, which I suspect will be 7mm, 300, 338, 416 and 458, might seem some limited popularity - some more than others.




A 416 version would be interesting.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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hoppdoc
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: jsl3170]
      #67895 - 23/12/06 03:12 PM

Higher pressure than a 375 H&H? 60,000 psi?

It is probably run at those pressures and 200fps higher only for marketing to beat out the H&H.Its real strength would be when loaded to 375 H&H velocities!! And we all know that 375 H&H velocities are more than adequate.

Unless my reasoning is wrong logic dictates it is a 375 H&H equivilent at similar or lower pressures.

Why?

If the water capacity of the new hull is 6 grains more than the H&H and it is shorter and fatter then it has a larger capacity and better burn of the powder column.Like the 416 Rigby vs the 416 Rem it can do the same thing at lower pressures. Thus in similar length barrels velocites should be the same at the same or lower pressures!!

Someone correct me if I am wrong!!

The more I think about it would be a North American dandy for close range Big Bear and other game out to 250+ yds in SS and a lightweight synthetic stock with a good trigger!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (23/12/06 03:16 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: hoppdoc]
      #68182 - 28/12/06 03:33 AM

What exactly is a .375 Ruger? What case is it based upon or is it a completely new one?

I read on another post Hornady was using am 8x68 case for a 9.5mm (375) new cartridge?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: hoppdoc]
      #68186 - 28/12/06 03:43 AM

The new .375 Ruger is based on the 8x68 case. I built one up back in the late 80's or early 90's and worked up loads for it aztthat time. We called it the 9.5x68. It has identical case capactiy to the .375H&H when using .375H&H brass to form cases and duplicates the .375 ballistics at the same pressures. With RWS brass it is capable of running 270gr. at 2,900fps+ with top-end loads and light deer bullets of 235gr. at well over 3,000fps, maybe 100fps advantage, real or imagined. When my stock of RWS 8x58 brass ran low, I simply turned the belts of .375H&H brass down to .522", then trimmed to length and fireformed. Once formed, they worked perfectly and saved on the price of the expensive European brass.
: My rifle was a 1935 VZ BRNO Mauser and it worked perfectly. I sold the rifle to a friend, who then shot many moose with it, and sold it to his brother who loaded 250Barnes "X" and shot many more moose with it. All in all, the first barrel, a McGowen, started life as a .375When Imp, had over 8,000 rounds through it, maybe even 10,000 when it was retired.
: When the rifling was a memory for about 6" a new barrel was fitted and chambered using the same 6.5x68 reamer and neck/throater that was used originally by me. RCBS makes the dies and has had them since Keith (second owner) first ordered them made back in '88 or whenever it was I sold it to him. Dave, Keith's brother, gave me the old barrel. I shortened it and chambered it to .375/.350Rem for testing that ctg. and it still shot 1-1/2" at 100 meters although with it being 1" shorter, it still didn't have any visible lands for about 3". Dave had it Magnaported & the noise didn't seem louder to the shooter, but was somewhat, I guess. Muzzle jump was almost eliminated, though. This might have been in the early 90's, I don't remember exactly. It's an incredible round, beautiful to look at and nice to use since there is no belt on the 8x68 brass.
: With the belts turned off .375H&H brass, the case head above the belt expands out to the head diameter of .522" and looks just fine. In function, it is as safe as any normal brass. RWS brass is stronger than any of the .375H&H American made brass, though. Identical loads showed .001" less expansion on the expansion ring. The .522" dimension turned on the belt is necessary to hold the H&H case properly in the chamber as that is the .375 Ruger(9.5x68)head diameter. Turning the belt down is a 10 second job on a lathe but could be done with the brass chucked in an electric drill held in a bench vise, with files. One should have a michrometer or dial calipers to get the belt the correct dimension.
: Wonderful round, - will it surplant the H&H - who cares. It's an excellent ctg. that works in standard Mauser actions and gives real world power. With the variety of good .375" bullets on the market today, it's sure to be a winner for those who appreciate great ballistics.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Mike_McGuire
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: NitroX]
      #68189 - 28/12/06 05:41 AM

John,

The dimensions have been posted somehwere on AR as put out by Hornady.

Basically, it is a rimless case with the same head and rim diameter as the diameter of the belt on belted brass and is 2.5" long.

So basically it is like a 338 necked up to 375 but a bigger diameter case starting at .532 at the base as opposed to about the .511 or so diameter just in front of the belt on the 338 etc. Its case capacity is a bit bigger than the 375 H&H but smaller than the 375 Wby or other 375 H&H Improveds.

Mike


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Mike_McGuire
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: NitroX]
      #68199 - 28/12/06 09:56 AM

I found it on a post on 24Hours.....copy of post below. If those shoulder dimemsions are correct it is a very small taper. Might be a misprint and should be .518??

Hornady has confirmed the 375 Ruger's case dimensions to at least one gun scribe, though it differs quite a bit from what Scovil published, as:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Length 2.500"
Rim diameter .532"
Base diameter .532"
Shoulder diameter .528"
C.O.A.L. 3.340"

I was also told that it holds 6 grains more powder than the longer H&H case


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400NitroExpress
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: jsl3170]
      #68228 - 28/12/06 02:32 PM

Quote:

Hello,

I want to cast my two cents after posting myself recently about this cartridge. An article I read suggested the hitch with the caliber is its 60,000 psi which is probably how they can get the velocity etc to match the 375 H and H if my understanding of ballistics is correct. For this reason it probably won't do so well in hotter climes where pressure concerns are very real.




What author wrote this nonsense? The pressure standards for the .375 H & H Magnum, both SAAMI and CIP, are 62,000 PSI. In other words, it's a HIGH pressure cartridge. Contrast that with the .375 H & H Flanged Magnum at 47,000 PSI. The Ultra Mags, Weatherby Mags, WSMs, etc., can run on up to 65,000 PSI but that isn't enough difference to spit at. To my knowledge, the pressure standard for the .375 Ruger hasn't been released yet, but it will be close enough to the .375 H & H to make no difference whatsoever.

The .375 Ruger isn't based on the 8X68S. The 8X68 has a base diameter of .522", while the new .375 Ruger uses a base diameter of .532".

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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DPhillips
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #68256 - 29/12/06 06:03 AM

400,
I think the confusion about the 8x68 case is stemming from an article written by Dave Scovill in Handloader Magazine. Scovill claimed he had a case and reported its casehead measurement as .522". He also reported different shoulder and OAL measurements than Mike and I (Mike quoted what I quoted on 24Hr) above.

I'm not sure if Scovill "dry-labbed" his measurements, had a proto-type case that Hornady isn't using, the writer that passed along the info to me isn't correct or if Hornady is feeding confusing information to numerous people.

I honestly cannot see where Hornady would be using a .522" casehead, that just doesn't make sense to me. I strongly believe the writer that passed along the information to me that he got from Hornady is right, I've never known him not to be truthful or to not fully research his findings before opening his mouth. He has no reason for pomp, unlike Scovill who tried to take credit for everything under the sun, even the Barnes TSX design.


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400NitroExpress
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Re: .375 Ruger V .376 Steyr V .375H&H [Re: DPhillips]
      #68258 - 29/12/06 06:37 AM

D:

You're right. Scovill had no data from Hornady, and I'm sure that's the source of all the confusion.

Just spoke to one of the engineers on the project. Max pressure for the .375 Ruger is 62,000 PSI - same as the .375 H & H. Hornady specifically wanted it that way. He confirmed that the cartridge is not based on the 8X68S. Base diameter is .532".

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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