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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2363
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Headstamp for Africa.
      #346165 - 25/10/20 04:57 PM

Gentlemen,
I have a question regarding the issue of having the correct headstamp on your brass that matches the rifle you are using if hunting in Africa.

Does the rifle also have to have the same words as the headstamp on the brass or does it only have to match the paperwork. For example I have two 1895 Mannlichers and neither have any markings on the action or barrel to say what cartridge they are chambered for. The police paperwork has them registered as 6.5x53R which of course is correct but if I was to use Kynoch factory ammunition which I have plenty of, it is headstamped as 6.5mm. So what happens in this instance. What are the exact requirements as I have heard many times that the African authorities can be quite difficult to deal with if things re not exactly how they want. Thanks in advance.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #346168 - 25/10/20 11:49 PM

Waidmannshell,

I was scheduled to hunt in South Africa this summer, but with COVID-19, those plans were scrapped. Not sure what the future holds, but I am optimistic that it will eventually happen. Anyway, in my Gun preparation, the guide turned me on to an organization that is up-to-date on all African gun rules and regs and set everything up for me beautifully. It should elevate your Gun questions and concerns: https://www.hunterspermitsafrica.co.za/

Check them out.

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: crkennedy1]
      #346170 - 26/10/20 12:03 AM

Quote:

Waidmannshell,

I was scheduled to hunt in South Africa this summer, but with COVID-19, those plans were scrapped. Not sure what the future holds, but I am optimistic that it will eventually happen. Anyway, in my Gun preparation, the guide turned me on to an organization that is up-to-date on all African gun rules and regs and set everything up for me beautifully. It should elevate your Gun questions and concerns: https://www.hunterspermitsafrica.co.za/

Check them out.




Agree with the above..the last tine I flew into Joberg I used a service..they met me there..all went very smooth

Think about Africa and many other places is they have rules..AND they make shit up as they go..so you never know what u r getting

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (26/10/20 12:05 AM)


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Ripp]
      #346179 - 26/10/20 03:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Waidmannshell,

I was scheduled to hunt in South Africa this summer, but with COVID-19, those plans were scrapped. Not sure what the future holds, but I am optimistic that it will eventually happen. Anyway, in my Gun preparation, the guide turned me on to an organization that is up-to-date on all African gun rules and regs and set everything up for me beautifully. It should elevate your Gun questions and concerns: https://www.hunterspermitsafrica.co.za/

Check them out.




Agree with the above..the last tine I flew into Joberg I used a service..they met me there..all went very smooth

Think about Africa and many other places is they have rules..AND they make shit up as they go..so you never know what u r getting




This is totally true.

I was detained at the airport in Nairobi back in 1980 due to a problem w/ my visa. the visa itself was good for 3 months but when questioned upon arrival, I'd answered "1 week". Then Mobutu shut down all flights into Zaire/Congo. I was able to scam a seat on a missionary plane violating the ban and the Kenyans had no problem with THAT, but tried to massage me over the overstay!

Then, in Zaire, I was held under house arrest for 3 days due to the illegal entry. {Yup, I was an "illegal alien!"}.

In 1988 going thru Heathrow I was told to remove the bolt on my .375 and pack that in my carry-on baggage, NOT with the rifle in its case. Then when being searched, later, all hell broke loose when a security genius picked up the bolt and asked what it was. I answered truthfully, adding that I'd been told to pack it in my carry on. The mental giant then fondled it a bit and...holding it by the bolt handle with the locking lug portion pointing away...declared it a gun and called for the police to arrest me! I protested as you can imagine {understatement....} and demanded that someone who had actually ever seen or handled a gun would be called and eventually, after much wrangling, some security guy who'd been in the Briths Army showed up and he and I had a big laugh while he dressed down the individuals who were demanding I head straight to gaol!

Bringing guns into South Africa in 1988 and 1989, all I got at customs was a compliment on my .375, a short yap about hunting and a good luck with the hunt. Left customs feeling like the officer was my older brother.

Leaving out more...all that to say I do not know the answer to your question OP but I'd be very careful if it was me and I'd take RIPP's comment to heart. Box of chocolates, you never know, etc...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #346180 - 26/10/20 03:57 AM

this was some cracy shit

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: lancaster]
      #346196 - 26/10/20 12:40 PM

Quote:

this was some cracy shit




A really good friend of mine was there a couple years back..they came upon a road block.. the guy had a BLOW DRYER.. below it a piece of cardboard with a hand written speed on it that my friend and his PH were allegedly traveling at.. had to pay the fine and let them siphone gas before they could proceed..THAT is perhaps one of the craziest stories I have ever heard of..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Ripp]
      #346198 - 26/10/20 12:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

this was some cracy shit




A really good friend of mine was there a couple years back..they came upon a road block.. the guy had a BLOW DRYER.. below it a piece of cardboard with a hand written speed on it that my friend and his PH were allegedly traveling at.. had to pay the fine and let them siphone gas before they could proceed..THAT is perhaps one of the craziest stories I have ever heard of..




Sounds like that cop was just blowing hot air!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39059
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Ripp]
      #346199 - 26/10/20 02:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

this was some cracy shit




A really good friend of mine was there a couple years back..they came upon a road block.. the guy had a BLOW DRYER.. below it a piece of cardboard with a hand written speed on it that my friend and his PH were allegedly traveling at.. had to pay the fine and let them siphone gas before they could proceed..THAT is perhaps one of the craziest stories I have ever heard of..






Ffffing monkeys ....

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39059
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #346200 - 26/10/20 02:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Waidmannshell,

I was scheduled to hunt in South Africa this summer, but with COVID-19, those plans were scrapped. Not sure what the future holds, but I am optimistic that it will eventually happen. Anyway, in my Gun preparation, the guide turned me on to an organization that is up-to-date on all African gun rules and regs and set everything up for me beautifully. It should elevate your Gun questions and concerns: https://www.hunterspermitsafrica.co.za/

Check them out.




Agree with the above..the last tine I flew into Joberg I used a service..they met me there..all went very smooth

Think about Africa and many other places is they have rules..AND they make shit up as they go..so you never know what u r getting




This is totally true.

I was detained at the airport in Nairobi back in 1980 due to a problem w/ my visa. the visa itself was good for 3 months but when questioned upon arrival, I'd answered "1 week". Then Mobutu shut down all flights into Zaire/Congo. I was able to scam a seat on a missionary plane violating the ban and the Kenyans had no problem with THAT, but tried to massage me over the overstay!

Then, in Zaire, I was held under house arrest for 3 days due to the illegal entry. {Yup, I was an "illegal alien!"}.

In 1988 going thru Heathrow I was told to remove the bolt on my .375 and pack that in my carry-on baggage, NOT with the rifle in its case. Then when being searched, later, all hell broke loose when a security genius picked up the bolt and asked what it was. I answered truthfully, adding that I'd been told to pack it in my carry on. The mental giant then fondled it a bit and...holding it by the bolt handle with the locking lug portion pointing away...declared it a gun and called for the police to arrest me! I protested as you can imagine {understatement....} and demanded that someone who had actually ever seen or handled a gun would be called and eventually, after much wrangling, some security guy who'd been in the Briths Army showed up and he and I had a big laugh while he dressed down the individuals who were demanding I head straight to gaol!

Bringing guns into South Africa in 1988 and 1989, all I got at customs was a compliment on my .375, a short yap about hunting and a good luck with the hunt. Left customs feeling like the officer was my older brother.

Leaving out more...all that to say I do not know the answer to your question OP but I'd be very careful if it was me and I'd take RIPP's comment to heart. Box of chocolates, you never know, etc...




Good stories. Entertaining.

The cops in Asia are nicer, they tell you they will not embarrass you by putting the handcuffs on until AFTER you exit the airport, and are in the car park.

Most people have such boring travel stories.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39059
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Ripp]
      #346201 - 26/10/20 03:03 PM

Quote:

they make shit up as they go..so you never know what u r getting




This is the simplest answer The snoobabs makes shit up as they go. Either because they have monkey brains, or are grumpy that day, you annoy them for some reason, perhaps they don't like your nose or something, they just want to ffff you around, OR just want to "TAX" you and pocket the bribe.

The last. TOO MANY people pay way too early and WAY TOO MUCH, and they reason it happens so much. Never paid the C@nts a bribe in my life. Including when asked outright for "beer money" had Jo'burg airport. Ffff them. I did worry a bit when leaving in case they remembered me and decided to loose my firearms.

Realistically Jo'burg is pretty easy by Snoobab African standards. Louis at Afton did once find out about a warehouse filled with "lost" firearms ...

I once spent a day trying to organise export permits, forex permits etc for more than "US$100 of souvenirs imported into Zimbabwe " (from Zambia, Tanzania etc and stupidly told the truth on an entry form). I went to the Reserve Bank, different govt offices etc. SHOULD HAVE JUST GREASED THE WHEELS AT THE BEGINNING! Ended up going to the airport and sending the stuff in a box unaccompanied on a plane. No documentation.

Snoobabs.

More and more we have white arsed snoobab species in Australia as well.

Matt, I think those headstamps are fine most of the time. Shit may and will happen. Part of the fun in snoobabland.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: crkennedy1]
      #346202 - 26/10/20 03:06 PM

Quote:

Waidmannshell,

I was scheduled to hunt in South Africa this summer, but with COVID-19, those plans were scrapped. Not sure what the future holds, but I am optimistic that it will eventually happen. Anyway, in my Gun preparation, the guide turned me on to an organization that is up-to-date on all African gun rules and regs and set everything up for me beautifully. It should elevate your Gun questions and concerns: https://www.hunterspermitsafrica.co.za/

Check them out.




In your particular situation I would go with the above.

I went into Namibia through Joburg and Botswana with my 358/338RUM and 416 Rigby. They did not even look at the head stamps in Joburg just confirmed 2 different lots of ammo. I did have a Africa Sky people meet me and take me through.

Botswana was different, they looked at the head stamps. I had used a Stamp to over stamp the 3 in the 338 with a 5. It was obvious but they did not have a problem with it as all matched. Namibia they didn't even look at head stamps.

That said if I had struck different officers then they may be more or less officious, efficient, more or less knowledgeable. First time into Botswana they lead officer would not let me speak to the officer doing the inspection. The bloke doing the inspection was new at the job and his boss wanted him to ask relevant questions, not have everything volunteered to him.

Like anywhere there is no hard and fast "This will happen" situation.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39059
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Rule303]
      #346205 - 26/10/20 03:15 PM

Botswana seems to have less "Snoobabitis".

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39059
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: NitroX]
      #346206 - 26/10/20 03:21 PM

In Namibia they did count my ammo.

The main point is stay CALM and POLITE.

Become agitated, angry, rude, just increases any problems. Even if refusing a bribe stay calm, I find acting really dumb stupid not understanding works the best. Easy for me.

"Hey man, how about some beer money for us, $10?"

"Yes it is hot, a beer would be nice and cool. But thank you I am not thirsty at the moment."

You will get a blank stare.

Or just give them an non comprehending blank stare.

PS good to have proper headstamps. "6.5mm" for a 6.5x53R is FINE!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2363
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: NitroX]
      #346310 - 29/10/20 10:24 PM

Thanks gents for your replies.

However what is the requirements for markings on the rifle to match the cartridge headstamp. Is it something that they check or not.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #346342 - 30/10/20 07:13 PM

Quote:

Thanks gents for your replies.

However what is the requirements for markings on the rifle to match the cartridge headstamp. Is it something that they check or not.

Matt.




That's what we are telling you. Sometimes they check some times they don't. Sometimes it needs to be 100% match other times just a calibre ie 6.5 on rifle and a 6.5 on the head stamp, whether the rifle has 6.5X54 on it and the cartridge has 6.5X54superdooper express on it. Every time I have been they check rifle and cartridges to some extent. There is no black and white answer to your question.

Depends on the person on the day, your meet and greet person/company or by self. Just remember put minimum info on paper work and try to have this done in advance and sent to them.


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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2363
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Rule303]
      #346347 - 30/10/20 07:59 PM

Thanks for the reply Rule, you have actually answered the question completely. And the answer is black and white. If there is even a small chance that the authorities require the Cartridge headstamp to match whats on the rifle then that's what needs to be done because there is no way that I would risk having my Rifle confiscated and a hunt ruined by taking a risk with some dumb but officious customs worker in Africa. Thanks again gents for the replies.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39059
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #346348 - 30/10/20 09:29 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the reply Rule, you have actually answered the question completely. And the answer is black and white. If there is even a small chance that the authorities require the Cartridge headstamp to match whats on the rifle then that's what needs to be done because there is no way that I would risk having my Rifle confiscated and a hunt ruined by taking a risk with some dumb but officious customs worker in Africa. Thanks again gents for the replies.

Matt.




Matt, that's an over reaction. You won't get a rifle confiscated. A much higher chance of having the rifle get lost. They will mess you around at worst. BTW I once had a white btw, customs guy in Jo'burg airport and it was obvious he could hardly read and write. It was painful watching him try to fill out the forms.

A useful phrase to learn: " What can I do, or, How can I, to get you to help me?" US$10 fixes a ot of purposeful mis-reading of forms and mismatched ammo. But don't do it too early or quickly , it only trains snoobabs to do it more often.

Travel is different from being at home. Be prepared. Do what can be reasonably done before hand. Stay flexible. Shit always will or may happen in the third world.

BTW some people decide only to travel with shit rifles in case they get lot.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Headstamp for Africa. [Re: NitroX]
      #346358 - 31/10/20 03:58 AM

My buddy Keith and his wife went to Africa a year ago last Sept. He was told by his PH to have ammo headstamps and the stamping on the rifle match with handloads or factory ammo.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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