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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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Bonde
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Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant?
      #169308 - 10/10/10 07:48 PM

Looking for a PAC or Tuskless elephant, and would like to use my 9 ,3x74R which I'm totally confident with.

I know it is a tad bit on the light side, but hitting in the right spot is the most important and a PH will be there in the event if I somehow miss.. Knock on wood!

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: Bonde]
      #169311 - 10/10/10 09:15 PM

Zimbabwe is about the only place you'll get more or less what you want but to be precise, you need a non exportable elephant rather than a PAC because it's illegal for an overseas hunter to take a PAC in zimabwe.

We don't operate in Zimbabwe but feel free to email me at shakari3@mweb.co.za if you need a recommendation to a good, safe, legal and ethical operator.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: shakari]
      #169314 - 10/10/10 09:46 PM

I doubt any PH in Zim (or any African country in fact) would complain if you wanted to use a 9.3 Double on Elephant. But be warned, its when you follow them into the thick cover that they use as a refuge. Or when the other Elephant want to extract revenge over a fallen family member that will have you wishing for something bigger.

A Tuskless hunt later in the season would be my recommendation due to the leaves falling of the trees thus providing more visibility. Early season can be mighty thick with bad visibility and obscure shooting lanes.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39270
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Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: ozhunter]
      #169324 - 11/10/10 03:05 AM

Minimum Equipment Requirements for Rifle Hunting in Zimbabwe
• Class A Game
5300 Joule
Minimum caliber 9.2mm in diameter
(Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)
• Class B Game
4300 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Lion, Giraffe, Eland)
• Class C Game
3000 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Leopard, Crocodile, Kudu, Oryx / Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Zebra, Nyala, Sable Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, etc.)
• Class D Game
850 Joule
Minimum caliber 5.56mm in diameter
(Warthog, Impala, Reedbuck, Sitatunga, Duiker, Steenbok, Jackal, Game Birds, etc.)

• Black Powder Rifles
Minimum caliber .40

But as Ozhunter says you probably would be able to use it by the outfitter even if the energy levels might be reach those levels.

Some guys have.

It all depends ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: NitroX]
      #169325 - 11/10/10 03:07 AM

What about Mozambique?

Mozambique
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Mozambique.
• Mozambique does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Provided that elephant are legal there?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Bonde
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Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: NitroX]
      #169337 - 11/10/10 07:39 AM

Thanks for Your advice! I'll look into that.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: NitroX]
      #169340 - 11/10/10 07:59 AM

I think 9,3 calibre is allowed in Namibia, but the energy requirement is 5,400J. Also allowed in most west african countries except CAR

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Ndumo
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Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #169342 - 11/10/10 08:21 AM

Quote:

I think 9,3 calibre is allowed in Namibia, but the energy requirement is 5,400J. Also allowed in most west african countries except CAR



Jabali, you are both right and wrong....
A 9,3 is allowed on elephant in Namibia, and 5400 J muzzle energy is the minimum FOR BUFFALO ONLY.
And we do offer non-export bulls to hunt...
Here's one:


--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: NitroX]
      #169361 - 11/10/10 05:18 PM

Quote:

What about Mozambique?

Mozambique
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Mozambique.
• Mozambique does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Provided that elephant are legal there?



John,

Mozambique only allows trophy (sport hunted) elephants.

FWIW, the country has spent some years trying to prove to the USF&WS that they have a responsible elephant management plan in place so they'll issue import permits to US citizens. The ban on PAC elephants was a little cloudy for some time but now there's no such thing as a legal PAC hunt in Mozambique.

That and john Jackson's (Conservation Force) legal battles are slowly moving towards that goal and consequently they're very keen to only allow exportable bulls to be sport hunted.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (11/10/10 05:24 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39270
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Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: shakari]
      #169365 - 11/10/10 05:53 PM

Steve,

Yes we have had discussions regarding the legality of PAC elephant hunts in Mozambique on NE in the past, with one member from Mozambique involved in the industry saying there are no legal PAC elephant hunts there.

As for exportability of elephant, for us Aussies, we can't bring elephant trophies back from anywhere, so for us, it is a moot point. If we hunt elephant, we don't expect to be able to take ivory home, to Australia, at least.

There are always offers of PAC elephant from Zimbabwe however, as well as tuskless hunts and non-export hunts. I was offered a PAC bull on my last safari, by the regional council, but alas a truck turned over on a mountain road and blocked it, and prevented us from getting up there. So we missed out on the opportunity.

Do you have a reference to the illegality of PAC elephant hunts in Zim? Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Which countries allow 9,3mm to be taken against elephant? [Re: NitroX]
      #169374 - 11/10/10 09:01 PM

John,

Yeah, you Aussies get it really tough with your soppy Govt and their attitude to elephants and spotted cats.... and you guys really have my sympathy on that!

Mozambique has always been a bit of a stuff up where permits etc have been concerned and in some ways the PAC elephant thing reflected that but their recent moves to get the USF&WS have clarified things considerably.

To give you an idea of what a stuff up Moz can be: About 18 or so years ago, I was hunting near Cahora Bassa and as we were driving down an elephant path, we met another vehicle coming the other way. We stopped opposite each other and the guy asked what we were doing on his area....... I asked the same thing.

It's still not that uncommon for that kind of thing to happen in some areas up there!

I wouldn't suggest any Americans hold their breath on the USF&WS giving in but John Jackson is dragging them kicking and screaming into court time and time again and my guess is it's only a matter of time.

Frankly, John Jackson has been a Godsend to the American hunters (esp) and he doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves!

Funnily enough, I was sent ALL the court orders on the subject recently but the paperwork on it is a mile high. Most number in the region of 60 pages and there's probably a dozen of 'em.......... The short answer is USF&WS seem to have been repeatedly ordered to comply by the courts and they just ignore the orders!

I can provide a link to the Moz thing but before I do, it's (vaguely) on our site so you need to let me know if you're happy for me to post the link.

Alternatively, just go to the hunt Moz page and scroll down until you find the link.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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