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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
SA Cape Buffalo
      #263508 - 14/04/15 12:08 AM

I just returned from two weeks in South Africa which included a 2 day hunt for a warthog. A number of warthogs were seen, but none were harmed, but that is a different subject and different story.

During one of the evening meals, the talked turned to planning for my 70th birthday hunt in 2018.

As much as I would like, being retired and on a fixed income and with a modest 401K, I just cannot justify the cost of a Cape Buffalo hunt and said as much. $14.5K for over 40 inches and $12K for under is just too much of a stretch for one animal on my budget. On the other hand I would be willing to spend the $4.5K asked for a cow-except I don't want to shoot a cow.

The Outfitter told me he expects to see the cost of Buffalo to come down, and a good deal in SA. There is getting to be a good surplus of the animals in the country and the Parks Department wants to move them. He told me he would not be surprised to see the cost for under 40 inches to go under $7K to $8K. This would be a bit more in my reach-a stretch but I don't plan on financing my kids on my death.

I don't need a big Buffalo head. I would like to hunt a buffalo.

What do you folks think about hunting a smaller "under 40 inch" Buff?

I defer your greater experience and knowledge?

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: DoubleD]
      #263512 - 14/04/15 01:01 AM

IMHO, S Africa is an expensive place to hunt buffalo. As most areas are HIGH fenced, they pay for feed them and all the other expenses that go with that..

Think you might be able to find a cheaper hunt in Zim or Mozambique..and its in the wild..not fenced..

I am not diminishing those that want to hunt S Africa..each to their own, but in regards to prices, that is what I have seen..

Also from what I am seeing on the hunting sites, think if you book later sometimes you can get a better deal..either a cancellation or some other issue where the PH still has tags available..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Ripp]
      #263541 - 14/04/15 11:58 AM

Are those fees the trophy fees only? ie the daily rates are still on top of that. Because that was the sort of prices one used to see in South Africa.

Secondly, "the Parks want to move them", and that is the problem. A lot of cape buffalo in South Africa are animals relocated to tiny high fenced blocks. I saw one such block where "a cape buffalo bull was located for hunting" and the young PH looked at me excited ... I think I was supposed to be as well, but I thought the whole deal a fraud and a joke. One bull in a 500 acre paddock is not called cap buffalo hunting.

As mentioned the animals are hand fed. Or at least fed at a trough at particular times somewhere. They become accustomed to humans. And have a routine. We had a female hunter's story on here where she was encouraged to shoot a cape buff at night by spotlight because that was when the bull fed at the trough.

There are some areas eg on the Kruger boundaries where Parks buffalo can be found coming in and out of Kruger. They were at one time quite expensive, $21000 and $25000 and more to hunt. Not sure what the price is now.

I would hunt Mozambique myself for my 50th birthday this year if I could afford it. Or Zimbabwe or Tanzania if I won the lottery. To me there is nothing in comparison to a true wild herd wilderness area hunt compared to that sort of stuff described above. And the prices are usually actually better for a short buff hunt.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (14/04/15 04:17 PM)

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: NitroX]
      #263545 - 14/04/15 01:41 PM

High fence and small plots would be an issue to me also, but the concession involved is 150,000 hectares, high fenced. I'm not buying that the buffalo would have full roam of that. I would need to be assured.

Yes the fees mentioned were the trophy fees.

I am more concerned about hunting smaller animals and any issues with that.

Can I get a Mozambique buffalo for $7K -$8K under 40 inches?

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: DoubleD]
      #263554 - 14/04/15 04:17 PM

DD

150,000 hectares is not a small area by anyone's sensible thoughts. I would have no problem hunting it if the animals in the high fenced area are "wild".

Can I ask where the concession is? And who the outfitter is?

Re Mozambique you would have to ask the outfitters. Ozhunter would be a good person to comment. The prices I have seen are more than what you mentioned for the daily and trophy fees combined, from memory $12,000 to $14,000 total from a couple years ago. Possibly more. I do not believe they charge on an inch range basis.

IMO a trophy bull of 36 to 38 inches with hard bosses is a representative trophy bull. The 40 inch and above are getting to be good to exceptional trophies.

My own 'trophy' bull is probably only 33 to 34 inches, but I have never measured it as not that worried. It was an old beast maybe 13 years old, and good solid bosses. I shot it after the warvet problems I had in 2002. I also had the opportunity to take a second bull and tried hard but did not succeed on the second one. No discount for the smaller "inched" bull. The prices in 2000 and 2001 and still somewhat in 2002 were very good however compared to now for a short buffalo hunt ie $4500 to $5500. I purchased my hunt at an SCI auction where the hunt was turned in at the auction. Was sitting beside the agent who made me an instant offer. Which I quickly accepted. I think $5500. Most short buff hunts were about $8000 by 2002.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (14/04/15 04:20 PM)

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: NitroX]
      #263569 - 14/04/15 10:27 PM

Somerset East, Tollie's African Safari's for one and my first choice. Although this is waning...to much emphasis on color phases.

The Second Outfitter Lowland Hunting Safari's. This is who I hunted with last month and the one who suggested the smaller bull. We hunted his concession near Estcourt. All free ranging animals-no high fence anywhere. Seen were Kudu, Nyala, wart hogs, impala, Zebra, blesbok, some Hartebeest, steenbok, common Reedbuck and of course duiker. We also saw two Oribi. More Nyala were seen than Kudu. Saw Jackel, genet and caracal tracks. Outfitter said there are leopard in the area but are only hunted on a nusiance basis.

The Buffalo are located on a concession near Empangeni and the Hluhluwe-Umflaozi Park. I did not get into details about the buffalo concession, because I really didn't see this animal to be with in my means to hunt. The thought was on my mind the entire two weeks we were in Durban and now of course, the thought of course continues.

John, you sum up exactly what I have in mind.

"IMO a trophy bull of 36 to 38 inches with hard bosses is a representative trophy bull The 40 inch and above are getting to be good to exceptional trophies."

I would be very satisfied with such an animal. Such a bull would a record book animal in my house! The only record book that matters. Might be the biggest in town but who cares-I think I know a guy in town who has one.

I ask here as I have no knowledge of buffalo, and wanted to be sure I wasn't listening to a salesman's pitch and being put on to shooting immature animals.

If an under 40 Inch, mature hard bossed animal is a good representative animal then that is good with me. That is the answer I am looking for.

In fact this is what the Outfitter alluded to, There are more of these smaller animals available, but the market is focused on the bigger animals. They need to find some way to market these animals

I can now ask the next questions about high fences, domesticy, etc.

Thanks, gents.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: DoubleD]
      #263572 - 15/04/15 01:12 AM

You should contact Adam (ozhunter) on here..he could probably get you in touch with a good hunt in Zim or Moz..

Just an FYI..

thx

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Ripp]
      #263614 - 15/04/15 09:34 PM

Mozambique is definitely an option I am considering.

Zimbabwe is not, particularly with this new computerized system that we are supposed to use to take our guns out of the country. Zimbabwe is a proscribed country.

Cost will be the critical element for this trip for me.

PM to ozhunter sent. Thanks Ripp.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (15/04/15 09:45 PM)

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Cazadero
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Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: DoubleD]
      #264318 - 28/04/15 12:02 PM

40" be damned.

Both of these are less than that in width.

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Cazadero
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Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Cazadero]
      #264320 - 28/04/15 12:15 PM

Those are Zimbabwean bulls.

If you are concerned that you are being given a salesman's pitch about high fences and hunting in South Africa, then you probably are.

Trust your instincts.

The true cost by the time you get there, get back, pay for everything, tip everyone, ship everything home, and hang him on your wall will probably approach about 20K.

You say you really want to hunt buffalo, then my advice is to not let yourself down. Start face to face at the Safari Show, strike a good solid business deal with a contract, and then go to Zimbabwe or Mozambique and hunt a wild animal.

Anything less is simply that. Less. And since these days you can find a buffalo head to buy on ebay, why spend the excess? Do you want to take a pen-raised animal from behind a fence when you can buy one online for much less?

Who will know either way?

Besides yourself.

Best of luck.

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Cazadero]
      #264327 - 28/04/15 08:24 PM

The Caprivi strip is also something one might consider. The gene pool is very good and the buffalo are plentiful. Most impotantly, are no fences in the Caprivi. Price will vary somewhat but at face value will likely be just a bit more expensive than Zim, although when one does ALL the math, it works out to be just about the same. The $2.5k shuttle flight from Harare to the Chewore region compares to $500 for the flight from Windhoek to Katima so things balance off in the end.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Postman]
      #264328 - 28/04/15 09:13 PM

I have done two buff hunts (so have almost nothing like the experience most of the guys here have) but my thoughts. I did one hunt in the Selous in Tanzania and one in a big place in South Africa, 10,000 hectares from memory, otterskloop I think it is spelt. Neither was easy, we didnīt see any buff in either place for 6 days (plenty of spoor etc) and in both cases (coincidence) I shot the animals 2 or 3 days before I was due to go home. I enjoyed both immensely. I KNOW there are places in SA where it is not a hunt but if you choose one of the big places in my opinion you will have just as good a time. And one plus about SA...you will not have the official ranger with you carrying an AK 47 who on the very first day states matter of fact that he wants an 800 US$ bribe or you arenīt even going to start hunting !!! That pissed me off, best, Mike

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #264329 - 28/04/15 09:22 PM

p.s. Zim not on my radar as long as Mugabe is above ground, sorry, wonīt give that govt any money

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #264332 - 28/04/15 11:06 PM

Quote:

I have done two buff hunts (so have almost nothing like the experience most of the guys here have) but my thoughts. I did one hunt in the Selous in Tanzania and one in a big place in South Africa, 10,000 hectares from memory, otterskloop I think it is spelt. Neither was easy, we didnīt see any buff in either place for 6 days (plenty of spoor etc) and in both cases (coincidence) I shot the animals 2 or 3 days before I was due to go home. I enjoyed both immensely. I KNOW there are places in SA where it is not a hunt but if you choose one of the big places in my opinion you will have just as good a time. And one plus about SA...you will not have the official ranger with you carrying an AK 47 who on the very first day states matter of fact that he wants an 800 US$ bribe or you arenīt even going to start hunting !!! That pissed me off, best, Mike



That bribing a Tanzania thing??? Have never had to do that in Zim or the other places I have gone..just curious as I have another friend that happened to as well..also in Tanzania..

They tried to bribe my friend and I in Kyrgzstan but told them to f--k off and loaded my rifle..that seemed to end that idea some...kept the rifle with me inside the vehicle the entire 8 1/2 hours to the city..got some weird looks when I got out of the vehicle with my rifle..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Cazadero
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Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Ripp]
      #264388 - 30/04/15 12:24 PM

For those who claim that they refuse to hunt Zimbabwe to avoid filling Mugabe's coffers, does the logical process consider the families (PH's, their wives, their children) that suffer under his dictatorship that might directly be benefitted if you were to book and hunt with them?

Some monies can and usually are paid in cash while they are marketing in the U.S. or Europe...

Just something to think about.

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Cazadero
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Cazadero]
      #264390 - 30/04/15 12:31 PM

"he expects to see the cost of Buffalo to come down"
"getting to be a good surplus of the animals"
"the Parks Department wants to move them"
"He told me he would not be surprised to see the cost for under 40 inches to go under $7K to $8K"


" wanted to be sure I wasn't listening to a salesman's pitch..."


Well If it looks, smells, and feels like a pitch...

Welcome to South Africa.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #264538 - 04/05/15 05:38 PM

Quote:

...you will not have the official ranger with you carrying an AK 47 who on the very first day states matter of fact that he wants an 800 US$ bribe or you arenīt even going to start hunting !!! That pissed me off, best, Mike



Never had that happen to me in Africa at least when hunting. Obviously "tips" have been expected after the hunt. Not sure how I would react if threatened in this way. Probably not in a good way ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: Cazadero]
      #264556 - 04/05/15 11:25 PM

Quote:

"he expects to see the cost of Buffalo to come down"
"getting to be a good surplus of the animals"
"the Parks Department wants to move them"
"He told me he would not be surprised to see the cost for under 40 inches to go under $7K to $8K"


" wanted to be sure I wasn't listening to a salesman's pitch..."


Well If it looks, smells, and feels like a pitch...

Welcome to South Africa.



It is all sales pitch, that is for sure.

"free ranging"
"no high fences"
"real wild experience"

Think I will go to Alaska and chase a moose instead.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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DarylS
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: DoubleD]
      #264558 - 05/05/15 01:00 AM

If you offer money to receive something not planned or previously paid for, that is a bribe.
If they demand money, above and beyond, it's extortion.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: SA Cape Buffalo [Re: DarylS]
      #264571 - 05/05/15 05:38 AM

Well it was extortion then. As a matter of fact after 7 days of hard hunting with no joy, said "official ranger" suggested we go to the block next door where he had seen a herd of 50 or so, a few of which were good and poach one and drag it over the boundary". Needless to say, illegal and highly unfair to the chaps who had the concession next door ! Still, I report it as it happened.

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