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szihn
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser?
      #301765 - 15/06/17 02:37 AM

Hello to all.
Who here has hunting and killed game with a 9.3X57 Mauser Cartridge?

I am looking for information and stories about the performance of the cartridge on game and details of the shot angles, range, and bullet used, velocity (barrel length may help)wound channels and bone broken and so on.

I am hoping to make one for myself this year along with a 9.3X62 I am making now.

I own and have used a 9.3X74R in my Ruger #1 quite a lot, so I have some experience with the it. I will assume I will see nothing much different from the 9.3X62. But storied about the use of the 9.3X57 are rare in the USA.
Please,,,,,do tell.


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Igorrock
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #301841 - 16/06/17 05:16 PM

9,3x57 used to be popular caliber among moose hunters in Sweden. Itīs very usefull when shooting distances are less than 150 meter and forest is dense. I think the most popular bullet in 9,3x57 would be NORMA Alaska. It works well in slower speed.

IMO there is no rational reason to own both 9,3x57 and x62, especially if you reload yours ammo.

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HeymSR20
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Igorrock]
      #301845 - 16/06/17 07:17 PM

I remember a very good article in Guns and Ammo or Hunting magazine about a gentlemen using a 9.3 mannlicher in Texas. It was his favourite rifle. A good friend has one over here.

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Hoot
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Igorrock]
      #301851 - 17/06/17 12:38 AM

Quote:

IMO there is no rational reason to own both 9,3x57 and x62, especially if you reload yours ammo.




But, must we be rational?

I also have a .358 and .356 Winchester (and a couple other equivalent cartridges...)


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Grenadier
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Igorrock]
      #301852 - 17/06/17 02:50 AM

Quote:

IMO there is no rational reason to own both 9,3x57 and x62, especially if you reload yours ammo.


Well, I guess that means there is no rational reason to own a .223 and a .22-250, or a .257 Roberts and a .25-06, or 8x57 and an 8x60, or a 7x57 and a .280 Remington.

I'm shooting .30 Carbine, .30-30, .308, .30-06, and multiple (MORE THAN ONE!) .300 H&H Magnums. I must be a candidate for involuntary commitment.

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Grenadier]
      #301853 - 17/06/17 03:57 AM

I like the bullets and the Classic Mauser rifles. I have no "need" at all. In fact, if truth were told I need only 1 center-fire rifle. That's true for about 99.5% of us and the other .5% can get by with two. So the rational of building these 2 is that I like them. Need or "reason" have nothing to do with a love of nice rifles.


I want----------- therefor I need. Slaves are allowed what they need. Free men buy or make what they want.

I am pretty sure you understand. That's the mindset of probably 99% of the members here. We LIKE the guns we like. That's why this web site is here.

One, the 9.3X57 will be a full stocked Carbine and the other, the 9.3X62 will be a Classic rifle.
Both stocked to fit me.

The "57" will have a double schnable stock to the muzzle with silver highlights and muzzle cap.
The "62" will be a rifle with a slender barrel, classic banded F.sight, express ear sights and barrel band swivel mount. Stocked in good walnut with a short forend and an ebony tip.

Both are good hunting rifles and will be working rifles, but the carbine may be a nice addition to hunting in super heavy brush on the river bottoms or also for those times when I go to the black timber after elk. I often hunt elk in the very steep and forested places in Western Wyoming and the short carbine will be a wonderful little tool for those places. The standard 22" barreled rifles are fine too, but as I said, I don't have "need". I just want.

My wife pointed out something last year that woke me up. I have carried some wood and some Mauser actions with me over the last 33 years waiting for "the time" to make a few guns for myself. It has now been over 1/2 of my life waiting to come up with "Spare time".

It's not going to happen.

So she told me "look, we both work, you don't have to do everything yourself. I earn a living too. I'll cover the bills and you should go make your rifles before you get to old to enjoy them"

So when she pointed out that I have waited over 1/2 of my life I realized she was right.

I am now taking 1 day a week to work on guns for ME!
I have not done that since I was in my late 20s. I know I don't have unlimited time to do things, so I guess I'd better do them now, before I can't.

I still work on customers guns 5-6 days a week. So they don't get shafted on the deal.
But Life goes by fast. We need to try to grab what we can and help all we can, and enjoy being a blessing to others while we can because there will come a day when we can't.

Edited by szihn (17/06/17 04:00 AM)


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Wanabebwana
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #301857 - 17/06/17 06:16 AM

The 9.3x57 is factory loaded to low pressures to avoid damage to older guns since cartridge was introduced around 1900. In a strong action it can be loaded to equal or better .358 Win loads of 250gr/2400fps. This is equal to the factory Remington load for the .35 Whelen with 250gr today.
I will be chronographing some loads later this summer and expect to drive 270gr Speers at close to 2400fps and 285 Hornady to 2300+.
The 9.3x62 can be loaded 270gr/2600fps at the same pressures.
Both my rifles are Husqvarna hi-powers a 146 and 640 both with FN large ring 98 action.
The 9.3x62 with max loads comes very close to factory .375H&H performance.The recoil is noticeable, similar to a .338Win Mag.The 9.3x57 is relatively fun to shoot and is well suited to hunting in wooded areas where game will be shot within 200yds.

Both of these cartridges are very efficient in that they can produce the same amount of energy as smaller calibers that burn considerably more powder. They also damage less meat.
The 9.3x57 can be loaded with bullets from 232 to 285gr bullets ( yes there are 320 and 325grs also available but their use in a small case is questionable).
To appreciate the power of the 9.3x62 you just need to know that it is legal to use on Cape Buffalo in several African countries.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #301859 - 17/06/17 06:33 AM

I have to agree with what you say. We spend so much time working on other peoples jobs that one never seems to have time to do anything for one self. I to have projects that have been on the go for over ten years and may never be finished. Unfortunately, if you are not wealthy you often don't have much choice. Sounds like you have a good wife, hope you finish those guns.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Wayne59
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #301863 - 17/06/17 07:51 AM

You might want to keep an eye out for 9.3x57 dies. They go in and out of stock quickly and can be hard to get a hold of. Its a good caliber. The dies for 9.3x62 seem to be more plentiful. I ended up buying Hornady dies. Much cheaper than CH4D.

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szihn
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Wayne59]
      #301880 - 17/06/17 11:54 PM

Yes indeed. I bought both sets of Hornady dies before I ever bought barrel blanks. So my projects are ready to go. I have a Steyr action all ready for the barrel of the 9.3X62 and I got a KAR action for the 9.3X57. I will weld on the bolt handle this coming week for scope use on the KAR. Both will have the safeties replaced with scope safeties.

I think I will use a military type rear sight on the full stock carbine but modify it for a windage adjustment. On the rifle I believe I will use a set of express sights, or if i can find one, I'll use the Mauser/Mannlicher set with the center standing blade and the 2 folders, one going toward the breach and the other folding toward the muzzle.

Anyone know where those old sights can be found?

Another option is to go to a Weaver side mount and use a Lyman or Williams peep sight as the back-up sight. Both rifles will have low power scoped on them, but I am a firm believer in iron sights too. My eyes don't allow me to shoot as well as I could when I was young, but having a set of irons has saved 2 hunts for me. One time I broke my scope by falling on a rock and one other time it was snowing so hard I could not keep the snow off the lenses long enough to aim. I removed the scope and continued to hunt and bout 20 minutes later I killed a VERY large buck at only about 20 yards. I could not see far, but neither could the buck.

Both stocks will be made from good walnut. Not super fancy, but nice and quite hard. I have the wood set aside now. I have not sawed it out yet, but I hope to get both of them made by the end of this year. I love the classic formed steel checkered butt plates with the widow's peak coming over the heel, but on 9.3s I may concede to recoil pads. Especially considering the fact on the carbine that I intend to make it very light. I expect it will come in at less then 8 pounds scoped and loaded.
One reason for my post asking about kills with the 9.3X57 is that the 220 to 240 grain range of bullets seem to all be European and I rad very good reports about them, but they can be quite expensive in the USA and also a bit hard to get. Bullets made in the USA of 250 and 286 grain are pretty common. I was hoping to get some feed back on the performance of the cartridge and see what would be best to "marry" each gun to.
I own a 9.3X74R and I have use the Speer 270 grain bullets on 12 head of game. Not impressed. SUPER accurate, but they are effectively a very large varmint bullet, blowing up on even very small deer and acting very erratically.

I like what I see written about the 236 grain Norma bullets and I was thinking they may be perfect for the 9.3X57, and I am also interested in the 220 grain Fox offering. But if I hear a lot of good things about kills made with the heavy 286 Grain Hornady, the 286 grain Nosler or the Barnes in the same weight I may go to them in the shorter shell. Hornady makes 250 grain bullets too and they also may be a perfect bullet for the 9.3X57.
In my 9.3X62 I just thought I'd go to the 286 gr Nosler Partition and call it good. I can't think of any case where such a bullet at about 2450 to 2500 FPS would not cover the mission. I like the Partitions very well because they hold up to close range hits, but they also expand down to lower velocities better than the X and "mono" bullet do. I may be over thinking all this. Maybe I need to just use the Nosler in both rifles and forget the rest.
What do you guys think?


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DarylS
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #301882 - 18/06/17 12:38 AM

I also use Hro0nady dies, both 9.3x62 and 9.3x57. I use a set of Hornady .375 Styer dies for neck sizing and seating bullets in my .375/06IMP as CH4D would not make the dies to my chamber (supplied cases - TWICE) They kept insisting on using a .454" shoulder as that is normal for Ackley IMP standard cases, which oversized my .460" shoulder.

My 9,3x62 liked BLC2, while the 9.3x57 likes both BLC2 and H4895.

My .375/06IMP has exactly the same case capacity as the 9.3x62, at 78.0gr. in RP and FED cases. WW cases have 80gr. capacity.

This rifle also likes H4895 & BLC2. There are a whack of other powders they like, as in RE#15, IMR4064 and IMR3031.
I think those are .450 Alaskan's in the loading tray beside my 9.3x57 Husky.



Bull moose calf.

270gr Speer - 2,300fps MV- impact at 200 yards, bullet blew up and wrecked most of the onside leg. Fragments hit the lungs- lucky for me. The impact velocity was about 1,850fps, maybe. it did hit the leg bone which is a good 2" in diameter, smashing out 2 1/2" of it's length & going to pieces doing this. This is not a lightly boned deer leg, but at the velocity the bullet was going, I was surprised it blew up.

Impact side of the leg.




Other side!





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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: DarylS]
      #301896 - 18/06/17 08:40 AM

That's exactly the kind of thing I saw over and over and over from the Speer 270 grain.
In fact that's not as bad as some shots I have made with it.
I am going to bonded bullets or Partitions but the PPU 285 grain may show promise too. I like the look of the 232 grain Norma Oryx bullets but getting them is not always easy. They come in at about $1 each by the time I pay the shipping. Not back breaking, but not as low as I'd like. I love shooting and I can't break the bank doing it. Doing a lot of shooting is what keeps the skill level up and the cost of bullets works against us in that way.
I am even thinking about throating one of the new 9.3s for cast bullets and just making my one. Using a gas-check and a bullet of about 280-290 grains I am sure I can get 2200 FPS from it and if the accuracy was good I believe that's all the bullet I'd ever need.
But throating a barrel for cast bullets and then having it not live up to your hopes is bad. because now it is messed up for jacketed. that much free-bore gains velocity but usually costs a lot in the accuracy department.

My dream is to have the 9.3X62 using a good 285-285 grain bullet ad the 9.3X57 using a 220 to 232 grain bullet, but I will accept any weight in either gun if the bullets do what i want them to do on game. Bullet holes are what kills. Not bullets and not brass shells or rifles.
Those are all just tools to make holes with. If I get a good diameter hole through and through, the retained weight and theoretical advantages of one bullet against another is mostly just banter for discussion. But a 1" to 2" hole clear through an animal, no mater if bone is hit or not, is the goal.

What put the 2" hole through and through is not that important, be it drill bit, center fire rifle, muzzleloader, spear, particle beam or whatever.

I do have a 3rd option I am working on, but I will not know if that going to work out for about another month or so. If it does I''ll be posting my results here for all to read.

Edited by szihn (18/06/17 08:42 AM)


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #301898 - 18/06/17 09:23 AM

I would use the 232 grain Oryx or the 232 grain Woodleigh protected points. I am currently building a 9.3x57 on a Winchester Model 70 for my business partner as a sort of retirement present, it is about half finished at the moment. Anyway, the Oryx is what we are using in this case. He was quite lucky as a shop was selling ten boxes of Norma factory ammo after someone ordered it but never showed up. He got it for 30 bucks a box so he bought the lot.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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DarylS
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #301903 - 18/06/17 11:04 AM

The 232gr. VULCAN has a VERY thick jacket. I sectioned one just to check as I could not get the bonded Oryx at that time.

The 286gr. Vulcan might be a very good bullet for the 9.3x57, if it maintains the jacket thickness - I think it was 1/16", or .0625".

The bullet second from the right, is the 232 Oryx. After sectioning it, I squeezed it/them lengthwise to separate the jacket from the core so relative jacket thickness could be observed.



The bullet on the far right, is the 270gr. Speer. The bullet 3rd from the right is the 235gr. .375" Speer sized to .366", and the one 4th, is the 220gr. Hornady sized down to .366" also.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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coll416
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #301904 - 18/06/17 11:10 AM

Hi Fellas

I would consider any of the 232gn bullets from Norma or Woodleigh in the 9.3x57. I have successfully used the 232gn Vulkan on numbers of feral animals up to 300kg when shot out of a 9.3x62 at 2700fps MV. At the lower '57 MV's I think these bullets would be super. I am tossing up the Oryx or the new Woodleigh for next time in my '62. (no experience with either)

I have many positive experiences on large ferals with both the 270gn Speer at 2500fps MV and the 285gn PPU factory ammo at about 2300fps. The PPU in particular penetrates very deeply at the lower '62 velocities so would be a bomb in the 9.3x57 pushed hard. The Speer is softer, I have been lucky with this bullet it seems, I think it would be a great heavier 9.3x57 pill.

I have included pics of two young bulls shot on the run with 270gn Speer at 30-50m about 10 seconds apart. I retrieved a mushroomed bullet from inside the skin on the other side & promptly lost it, guessing it was about 50% of original weight. The PPU pills go right through!



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: coll416]
      #301918 - 18/06/17 09:15 PM

What are the definitive velocities for what bullet weights in the 9.3x57?

I think they might be well within the range of my 9.3x74R where I think the 286 gr Woodleigh PP is doing around 2170 fps. I have killed a number of pigs, donkeys, horses, scrub bulls and 14 or so water buffalo with it.

So if the 9.3x57 is similar, no reason it could not do similar results.

I used to think it was a little lesser powered in velocity?

I'm glad to see mention of the 232 Gr Woodleights, thought the lowest Woodleigh went was 250 gr, just had a look and see they have mis-aligned the title line on their latest catalogue.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (19/06/17 06:39 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: NitroX]
      #301943 - 19/06/17 03:27 AM

In a model 98 Mauser, the 9.3x57 can make 1930's era 9.3x62 ballistics.

By that I mean a M98 9.3x57 should make 2,360fps with 286gr.

I do not have that data, however I did load 286gr. to 2,200fps showing no pressure signs whatever and actually had less than .0003" expansion over sized brass, at the expansion ring.

That is less than 3/10,000ths at the expansion ring.

My rifle also did 2,440fps with H4895 and the 232gr.Norma Vulcans, and 2,300fps with the thin jacketed 270gr. Speer bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: NitroX]
      #301947 - 19/06/17 04:47 AM

Quote:

What are the definitive velocities for what bullet weights in the 9.2x57?

I think they might be well within the range of my 9.3x74R where I think the 286 gr Woodleigh PP is doing around 2170 fps. I have killed a number of pigs, donkeys, horses, scrub bulls and 14 or so water buffalo with it.

So if the 9.3x57 is similar, no reason it could not do similar results.

I used to think it was a little leseer powered in velocity?

I'm glad to see mention of the 232 Gr Woodleights, thought the lowest Woodleigh went was 250 gr, just had a look and see they have mis-transposed the title line on their latest catalogue.




here are the original Norma handloading data for the 9,3x57

https://www.norma.cc/us/Ammunition-Academy/Loading-Data/93x57/


and because its made for the Husqvarna 46 / 46a which is in fact a Mauser 94/96 action and NOT a Modell 98 and because Norma understand this problem and know what to do it would be NOT wise to load hotter than this for the swedish mauser action.

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bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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DarylS
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: lancaster]
      #301954 - 19/06/17 07:03 AM

I really think that is an overreaction to an overly cautious approach by Norma.

Please explain how or why the same rifles were chambered for the 9.3x62m, 8x57 and 7x57, when all are 57,000PSI rounds. The 6.5x55 is a 55,000PSI round.

Norma loaded the 9.3x57 to a very low 34,000Crusher, 44,000PSI crusher range - as I understand this, due to there being NO CIP Euro law for this round.

I know the difference between model 94/96's and model 98's.

Husqvarna also chambered M98's in 9.3x57, BTW. THOSE are the ones I was referring to, lancaster - I thought that would be obvious by my statement that:

A model 98 in 9.3x57 could be loaded to the same specs as 1930's 9.3x62, ie: 286gr. at 2,360fps,

afterall:

I was loading my model 96 to 2,200fps without ANY pressure signs at all- thus, one might seriously guestimate that a MODEL 98 Mauser in 9.3x57 COULD to loaded to the soft stats of the 9.3x62 ammo.

One of course would have to know what ONE was doing - ?????????????

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: DarylS]
      #301964 - 19/06/17 08:44 AM

Bureaucrats and lawyers are poison in every nation.
I have seen it so many times . Someone sets a standard because they either think they know what they are doing, or talked to someone they thought knows what he was doing, or in many cases just make it up on the spot.

Same with the 6.5 Swede and the 260 Remington. If both have the same action around them why would one be loaded to a lot lower pressure then the other?
In the case of White Labs (I believe it was) doing their teats when Kimber brought in a bunch of 96 Mauser actions years ago, they had many of them converted to 22-250. So they had independent tests done and found that lo and behold, the Carl Gustav Swedes were often stronger then the M700 Remington.

I guess it us because not all 6.5 Swedes were M96s.
not all 45-70s are Marlins or Ruger #1s either, but we see loaded for Marlins and Rugers.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________


Just as a side note, I just shanked and threaded 3 of the new barrels I got the other day. 2 will be 9.3X57s and others 1 will be 9.3X62. I will also be doing 4 other 9.3X62s in the coming few weeks

Seems like the 9.3 has been "discovered" in Wyoming.

Please post your loads with American Powders. I find some with Norma powders, but I'd love to see loads with IMR's, Hodgdon's, Winchester's, Alliant's, Ramshot's, and Accurate's powders.

Edited by szihn (19/06/17 08:48 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #301991 - 19/06/17 06:43 PM

Quote:


Just as a side note, I just shanked and threaded 3 of the new barrels I got the other day. 2 will be 9.3X57s and others 1 will be 9.3X62. I will also be doing 4 other 9.3X62s in the coming few weeks

Seems like the 9.3 has been "discovered" in Wyoming..




Maybe Boddington can write "The 9.3mm comes alive" ... ha ha ha, but only if some American company has released a new rifle and cartridge in 9.3 to sell. I am a cynic.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (20/06/17 09:34 PM)


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szihn
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: NitroX]
      #302005 - 20/06/17 12:51 AM

Well if Ruger or Winchester or even Howa would offer 9.3X62s and let the gun-rag-writers do their thing, I'd bet they would become popular pretty fast. For the Left Hand market it's a gem because it fits on standard length 30-06 length actions and magnum length LH actions are hard to find and REALLY expensive when you do fond one. But the 9.3X62 is fast easy and pretty cheep to convert any LH 25-06, 270, 280 or 30-06 into a rifle that is close to the old 375H&H flanged in power. If it were offered as a standard rifle by any or all of these companies the L.H. crowd would "climb onto that wagon" by the hundreds or maybe thousands.

Even the 9.3X57 has a lot of potential in a new and strong action of today and it gets the attention of shooters if they just take a look at it. The old loads for the 9.3X57 are kept purposely low because of the fear of the ammo being loaded into an older and no-so-strong gun. But we can say the same of the 7X57 as loaded in the USA for many years. Yet the 7X57 is still pretty popular here.

Wyoming is the least populated state in the USA, but it seems that a lot of hunter here are starting to notice the 9.3s. Maybe because we have a large population of elk and a VERY large population of Grizzlies. So the need drives the wants to some extent, but I'd have to guess that a run of 9.3s in factory rifles would still have good sales in other states too. Some men just like a super versatile rifle and have a gun that is powerful enough for the time in the future when they may be able to go to the Mountains and hunt elk, buffalo or moose, even if they don't live where the moose, buffalo and elk are.

Winchester has missed the boat for many years now in not offering their M70 in Left Hand, but Ruger is paying attention.


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DarylS
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #302006 - 20/06/17 01:39 AM

In Canada, due to the proliferation of Swedish 9.3's, they are becoming popular here as well.

Tradeexcanada has sold hundreds of them and continues to do so. At one time, they also had quite a number of Husky 9x57's as well. A buddy in Smithers bought one of those.
Of course, they have a lot of 96's in 6.5x55's military and sporters and M98's in 8x57's as well, along with huge sales of those rifles too.

Tradeexcanada is our source of Woodleigh bullets = expensive.


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Hoot
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: szihn]
      #302084 - 20/06/17 11:30 PM

Quote:

Well if Ruger or Winchester or even Howa would offer 9.3X62s and let the gun-rag-writers do their thing, I'd bet they would become popular pretty fast.




Maybe I'm missing your point but Ruger offered both their No. 1 and the M-77 in 9.3x62. Now, if the 'gun-rag-writers' fawned over them, I missed it but the rifles were made. I also once saw a BAR in 9.3x62 but I couldn't say if it were factory or not. Tickled my fancy though.


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DarylS
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Re: Performance withthe 9.3X57 Mauser? [Re: Hoot]
      #302092 - 21/06/17 01:49 AM

I think Barnsness or Pierce wrote up the 9.3x62 some time back, in Rifle Magazine or perhaps did a Handloader article on it. Which rifle was used, I do not remember.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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