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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Drilling Configuration
      #61243 - 16/08/06 07:57 AM

This forum been a wee bit slow lately so I thought I might start a discussion on drillings.

I've thought about getting a drilling for several years now. I love to both big game and bird hunt and often I've found myself in areas that had both. Of course Murphy's Law being what it is I always find birds when I am big game hunting, and big game when bird hunting... To remedy this situation one season I carried both my SxS 12 and my 30-06 but this was a bit too much... Though I did get to shot a nice Canada goose that I otherwise would not have been able to. So this leads me to a drilling. But the question is what configuration?

At first glance I thought of the common configuration these days: 2 12s and a 9.3x74r. I reload all of these calibres so its easy. Also for bear hunting in Alaska having a 9.3 with two 12 "just in case" is tempting. However, these guns are a bit too "hefty" for me and usually lack the feeling you'd like in a shotgun.

Then we have other issues such as saving money on buying a gun with older and less desirable calibres like 9.3x-72r, or perhaps short 65mm chambers in the shotgun barrels, and then spending more money on ammunition and reloading. This way you get a potentially interesting piece of history and a unique gun. Or spending more on the rifle and getting a more "modern" one with more standard calibres: 8mm, 7x65r, 30-06, etc.

Scoped or not? If so what kind of mounts and type of scope? If no scope would you install mounts?

Type of safety? As much as I love German and Austrian guns, I've never understood their love of the Greener safety. Many drillings I seen have them...

I've more thoughts on the subject but I'll take a step back and see what you guys think.

(Note: edited for spelling)


--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Edited by Chasseur (16/08/06 05:45 PM)

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NE450No2
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: Chasseur]
      #61244 - 16/08/06 08:17 AM

Several years ago I bought my wife a Sauer drilling in 12x12x30-06, with a Kahles 4x in claw mounts.
She had the same problem as you see wanted to be able to take fur and feathered game at the same time.

She loves it and has taken deer, wild pigs, turkey, ducks, quail, doves, grouse,squirrel, and rabbit with it.

Once and a great while she would let me borrow it and I would sneak it out on those trips I took without her.

It handles better as a shotgun than my Browning Citori.

I wanted a 12x12x9,3x74R but since I have a 9,3 double and you cannot take two rifles of the same calibre through South Africa I bought a drilling just like my wifes [12x12x30-06] and had a 1.1-4 S&B scope fitted in claw mounts.

On the first weekend I hunted with it I took 2 wild pigs and 3 turkeys.

Take a look at the Sauer 3000, or the Colt Sauer, bassically the same gun, and see what you think.

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luv2safari
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: NE450No2]
      #61260 - 16/08/06 01:15 PM

Like No2, I tend to be fond of my Sauer 3000 in 12/30-06 with a 6X50 Nickel Supra in claw mounts. They can be had for $3,200-3,500 without scope, and sometimes with scope for the same $$$. There is a Colt-Sauer on an auction site or GA for $3,350.00 right now without scope. I prefer claw mounts to other types, but that is mostly because I am used to them and have had nothing but good results with them.

My Simson 12/9,3X74R was heavy and slow to get into action, but it was a wonderful shooting gun.

I tend to think that the pre-war 16/8X57JR drillings are getting to be too expensive...almost as much as the later 12/30-06 guns, which are better values IMO.

The best configuration is the sidelock-side cock, as it uses a conventional tang safety, and one cocks the rifle with the side lever. In doing so, you select the rifle barrel, also. This is sometimes for the front trigger, and sometimes for the rear trigger. Most drillings use the front trigger for the selected rifle barrel, but my Charles Daly/Sauer sidelock/side-cocks use the rear trigger. The rifle is uncocked by holding down the lever, pulling the trigger, and lifting the lever up slowly.

I had a wonderful Gbr. Merkel sidelock/side-cock in 12/70mm and 8X57JRS at one time, but a "gunsmith" stole it, along with other peoples finer guns. It had a 2x7 Leupold in 1" split ring claw mounts. This was the best drilling I've ever used; the 8X57JRS was easy to reload with the .323 bullets and was a killer, as we all recognize in the 8mm Mauser. It had the top tang safety and front set trigger, and was regulated to throw an Original Brenneke slug right on the button at 60 meters out the right barrel with the rib flip sight. MOST of the sidelock/side-cock drillings also have a tang flip up peep, also.

A lot can be said for the 12/30-06 as your choice. I have mine regulated for 180gr Remington PSP, and can shoot reasonably well with most other standard 180 gr loads by the other manufacturers, and 12ga in now the universal shotgun bore. Add a removable 22LR or 22Mag insert barrel, like the smaller Kreighoff types, and you have a real all purpose gun.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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NE450No2
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: luv2safari]
      #61262 - 16/08/06 02:41 PM

luv2safari
If you have one please tell me more about the Krieghoff 22 LR insert.
Such as accuracy, can you get it to hit with the sights and does it go back to zero when removed and inserted.

I have thought about getting a .410 shotgun insert when I want to kill some small game for the pot a little quieter than the 12 ga.

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: NE450No2]
      #61265 - 16/08/06 05:49 PM

Thank you both for your comments.

I've seen but not handled those Colt drillings, but I've handled and been very tempted by those old Sauer drillings. Especially the ones where the rifle sights pop up when you select the rifle barrel!

I am leaning toward a scoped (claw mounts) 7x57r, 7x65r, 30-06, over 16 or 20. I'm looking for a "do it all rifle/shotgun" that won't require a gun bearer.

Any of you guys had any experience with hammer or under lever drillings? I see some old ones around and I love hammer guns too. Though, I'd not scope one...

Thanks again!


--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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hoppdoc
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: Chasseur]
      #61291 - 17/08/06 11:02 AM

A 12 x12 by 8 x 57J sounds very appealing for a ramble around the club for birds, vermin, pigs, and game.. A claw mounted scope seems right.

How much would such a rifle weigh?

Saw one by Simson and Sodia.Are these quality drillings?

What would be the ideal combo for about 7-8 pounds without scope? What would a 16x16 by 7mm weigh?

Sorry, but I know little about drillings.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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luv2safari
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: NE450No2]
      #61307 - 17/08/06 02:44 PM

No2,

My two are in 22mag and are exceedingly accurate when properly installed and regulated. One secret to accuracy and repeatability is making sure that the notch made in the extractor provides the tightest possible fit, while still allowing for easy installation and removal. Also, it is important to torque the tightening screw the same every time by feel.

I have the 14" or so length Kreighoff inserts, but think that the shorter variety may be just a bit better for field use in general. They can be carried in a sheath on the hip in the shorter version...The longer ones don't lend themselves to being carried this way, and I may bob mine about 5".

I, too, have often considered a 410 insert for popping runny-babits and squills. or the highly intelligent spruce chicken...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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luv2safari
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: Chasseur]
      #61309 - 17/08/06 03:09 PM

A 20 gauge drilling is hard to come by, and they cost about 50% more than a 16 or 12. They don't weigh any less than a good 16gauge, either.

A nice Sauer or Simson in 16/70 and 7X57R is a great drilling configuration. I sold a Sauer Lux early post war with a full length 22 hornet insert and Zeiss 1.5X6 in a swing mount to LeBas and curse myself for letting it go.

My next drilling is supposed to be a 16 & 7X57 or a 6/5X57.

hoppdoc,

A 12/12/8X57JR is about as good as it gets, IMO. Ammo for it is cheap, and it is an all around drilling for No America.

All things considered, I like the Simson better than the Sodia. I feel that the Austrian guns are nicer outside, but the German guns have better innards...just personal opinion.

Most 16/8X57 drillings weigh about 7 3/4 pounds w/o scope. I had a Kettner Dural sideplated short drilling in 16/8X57JRS that weighed 6.25 pounds, but couldn't shoot it well...too bad!!!
I sold a nice underlever 16/9,3X72R to 8x56mm here. It was a hammer drilling with a Voightlander scope in claws. Ask him how he likes the gun. I loved it, as it was so trim and graceful... It is next to impossible to find an underlever in anything but obslete calibers, the 9,3X72R being just out of that catagory and common, however.

My best advice when buying any older drilling is have the chamber cast and identify the chambering for certain.


--------------------
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NE450No2
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: luv2safari]
      #61312 - 17/08/06 04:27 PM

Chausser
Mine and my wifes Sauer 3000 were made in the 1960's.
They are not heavy or bulky at all, they handle like a fine quail gun. There are one of the beas handling "shotguns" I have ever used.

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: NE450No2]
      #61355 - 18/08/06 08:22 AM

450no2,

Thanks for you comments. I like 12 that handle well, in fact I prefere lightweight 12s to 16s or 20s for most of my hunting actually. I'm going to look arround for one of those Sauers!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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luv2safari
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: NE450No2]
      #61356 - 18/08/06 08:23 AM

No2,
DITTO! I use mine chucker hunting often.

Chasseur...That Colt-Sauer on GunBroker looks darned nice for the price. The price is where it should be, and I DO think they will appreciate with the "Colt" logo on them.

I almost bought it just because I like the 3000 Sauers so much. They are strong, well made drillings in modern chamberings. Heck, that pickey No2 was pleased enough to buy a second one...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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NE450No2
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: luv2safari]
      #61359 - 18/08/06 09:48 AM

Who says I am picky???

"I have the simplest of tastes...

I am always satisfied with the best".

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NE450No2
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: NE450No2]
      #61360 - 18/08/06 10:04 AM

They have several of the Sauer, and Colt Sauer Drillings on Gun Broker.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Drilling for sale!! [Re: NE450No2]
      #61362 - 18/08/06 10:50 AM

I ran across this Drilling on Gunbroker.com---


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=54416052

Any thoughts about its quality and a reasonable price?
What length 16 gauge shells would it be designed to shoot?

Thanks on any input.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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luv2safari
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Re: Drilling for sale!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #61371 - 18/08/06 02:39 PM

It is a Christopher Funk, a good maker, but if it is the one I think it is, the scope mount is permanent and has bases screwed into the old claw mount bases. The gun is still worth $1,300-$1,500 however, if unaltered and not re-blued in a hot tank. I would take off the scope and use it sans scope, if the rear pop up sight is still present. It looks like a WWII bring-back that Joe Blow's Gunsmithing got a hold of and made a "shooter". It could be a diamond in the rough, or just a QZ.

It probably has 65mm chambers. It is obvious that the owner knows nothing about drillings, as he thinks that the maker of the steel for the barrels was the manufacturer of the gun.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: Chasseur]
      #61467 - 20/08/06 10:23 PM

Chasseur,

I'm not much of an authority on drillings, but here's an account of my experience.

I have owned two drillings, both pre-WW2 German guns. The first was a 16 x 16 x 8x57JR. The second was a 16 x 16 x 8x57JRS. Both were fine guns, and I enjoyed owning them. The second was the better gun as it was higher grade finish and engraving. The rifle barrel shot super accurate with loads using the Hornady 250 gr. RN. I just used the express sights when I shot it.

This gun had claw bases. I wanted a scope for it and bought a 1.5x Schmidt & Bender. I sent it to a gunsmith to make claw mount rings to fit the existing bases. He totally screwed up the job and ruined the scope in the process. No damage to the gun, though. That put me off the gun, as my hopes were dashed, and I think it was the main reason I let the gun go.

I didn't shoot either drilling very much at all, and in the end, I decided that my interests lay more firmly with double rifles. I traded the last drilling on my Francotte 9x57 double rifle about 8 years ago.

With drillings there are all sorts of different systems. I prefer an A&D for strength in the stock. The Blitz will nearly always crack in the wrist.

Many have a separate cocking sidelever for the rifle works. I never had one of those. On cocking the lever, the rifle barrel is selected. This allows the safety to be on the top tang, where we usually look for it. In my opinion that's probably the better configuration.

Pay attention to how the safety works and how the gun selects between the right shot barrel and the rifle barrel. These mechanisms are used every time you shoulder the gun, and if they aren't convenient you may as well pitch the gun aside. There's a lot to think about in using a drilling.

I hope this helps.

Curl



--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: CptCurl]
      #61485 - 21/08/06 04:45 AM

In reply to:

Pay attention to how the safety works and how the gun selects between the right shot barrel and the rifle barrel. These mechanisms are used every time you shoulder the gun, and if they aren't convenient you may as well pitch the gun aside. There's a lot to think about in using a drilling.




Yeah this is one of the reasons I've not dived in yet. With a drilling there are so many variables between the three barrels, the safety, the scope (or not), the barrel selector, the triggers, etc. That its hard to get "exactly what you want" (not that's it really possible) on one gun. Thats why I vow to fondle as many guns as possible

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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hoppdoc
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: Chasseur]
      #61495 - 21/08/06 08:32 AM

Excellent post and thread on Drillings!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: hoppdoc]
      #61496 - 21/08/06 09:23 AM

Any thoughts on this Drilling? .

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976621251.htm

Is it worth the $money asked? It appears to be a lightweight 12x12 by 8 x 57.. Is the 6x scope too much power? Any prefered scope brands?

Thanks much!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (21/08/06 10:18 AM)

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luv2safari
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Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: hoppdoc]
      #61547 - 22/08/06 10:56 AM

hoppdoc,

It has a lot going for it, and I have had to talk myself out of buying it several times. It is in 12 gauge, S bore .323, better grade Merkel, a very good scope (I have the same scope on my Sauer 3000 12/'06 drilling), and the price is within reason. It could probably be had for $4,200-$4,300.

I wish to hell I could convince myself that I NEED it.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Drilling Configuration [Re: hoppdoc]
      #61562 - 22/08/06 02:51 PM

Its a beauty thats for sure. It has a nice slim wrist from what I can see. I like that.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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