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Hunting >> Hunting in the Americas
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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
The top of the food chain in North America
      #2902 - 21/05/03 08:05 PM

In most hunting cultures the top of the food chain, the carnivores, are usually seen to represent the premier hunting trophies.

In Africa, Lion and Leopard. In Asia, Tiger and Leopard. In Europe, bear and wolf. In South and Central America, Jaguar.

In North America I would think the cougar or mountain lion and wolf, as well as the Grizzley bear would rank highly.

But while bear are certainly much prized, I feel from reading the comments of many American hunters that cougar and especially wolf are often despised.

I wonder why this is so?

To me a wolf pelt would make an excellent trophy.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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ovis
.300 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: NitroX]
      #2915 - 22/05/03 04:44 AM

NitroX,

The wolf is a highly sought after game animal up here in the Last Frontier. It is also an enigma,in that, while being a great game animal, the do-gooders and greenies have pushed through different legislation that extremely limits population control and, in many areas, the wolf has just hammered the moose and caribou populations to a point where hunting has become poor at best. Bear(black as well as brown) wreak havoc on the moose calf population each year and, I believe, that something will have to be done in the near future. I live in a moose wintering and spring calving area, on a salmon stream, and the bears are always around. We have at least two wolf packs in the area also.
Last season, one of the clients took a beautiful black wolf and we saw numerous others.(Brooks Range) While in the Brooks, the wolf scat was everywhere and full of white hair from the Dall sheep they feed on. We saw moose at 3000ft. obviously looking for relief from the local wolf packs. I believe, if I remember correctly, the resident limit on wolves in that area is ten. No matter on which side of the ledger you stand, it all comes down to the fact that the natural balance is way out of kilter and we have no one to blame for that but ourselves. I hope it can be rectified, somewhat, in the future but it will be a long row to hoe.
The Brown Bear (grizzly, etc.) is definitely the top of the food chain in the areas that I frequent, just an awesome animal. Two weekends ago, about fourty miles North of me, a young man had the bad luck to have a spooked sow brownie and her two, two year old cubs run up on him. He shot and killed one of the cubs as it broke through some bush, not knowing there were two more, and the sow chewed him up quite a bit. He's doing well now after a bunch of stitches.
This happened on a creek that I Dolly fish in the Fall. Lots of brownies in the area. I hope you get to see this all some day.

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
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Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: NitroX]
      #3314 - 14/06/03 07:52 AM

I'd like to think that I'm at the top of the food chain, if for no other reason than I have guns, and they don't.

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AdamTayler
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Reged: 22/03/04
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Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #12687 - 28/03/04 02:30 PM

Once you spend time in areas with high grizzly populations, you realize where you fit in.

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
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Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: ovis]
      #12702 - 28/03/04 05:50 PM

Ovis said it perfectly for Alaska. Well done, sir. I agree 100%.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: ovis]
      #12703 - 28/03/04 09:30 PM

In reply to:

The wolf is a highly sought after game animal up here in the Last Frontier.



This is always what I have seen it as. Along with the bear, the wolf is the lion of North America.

Excessive protection does seem to be a problem from what you people on the ground say.

I too hope to see it myself oneday.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39549
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: NitroX]
      #12707 - 28/03/04 09:50 PM

Actually just finished watching a doco on Wolves in the Rockies. Some good footage mixed in with lots of supposition presented as fact.

Still very interesting and a great hunt scene of a wolf-pack hunting an elk cow or calf. I did not know they had so much stamina for a sustained chase.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ovis
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Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: NitroX]
      #12718 - 29/03/04 01:01 AM

NitroX,

I was fortunate, once again, to spend some considerable amount of time in the Brook's Range this past season. After supper one evening, we were all glassing a bowl across the valley from us and were stunned when five wolves cut a ewe and lamb from a band of Dall's sheep(much like stock dogs would, ran them down and consumed them. A very nice bull moose(prime) was found by one of the guides. The bull had been killed and had been fed on for a while by wolves. Alaska is a very special place.......I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
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Loc: QLD
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: NitroX]
      #12747 - 29/03/04 09:04 AM

I watched that one as well. To much tech crap not enough footage. The info on the scenting was spot on, based on what we know about our attack/tracker dogs. What the wolves done in tracking down that moose is how we use dogs to track down people. We are using their hunting instinct and channeling it to our use.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: Bakes]
      #12755 - 29/03/04 01:16 PM

Bakes the alpha male.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: NitroX]
      #12764 - 29/03/04 03:05 PM

Bakes

Do your dogs view you as the Alpha Male? Is that one way to control them? Do you ever get challenged by one for the position? How do they react to other handlers?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
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Loc: Kali, US
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: mickey]
      #12766 - 29/03/04 03:25 PM

Having done Attack training with various dogs in the past, that is only one of the ways to control. If the dog is really aggressive, you have to exert dominance over him or it's your ass. The moment you turn your back he will attack you if you're totally unprepared for it. You can let on like you're unawares and invite the action so that you can throttle him to submission without killing him. The other way is through kindness which only works with dogs who haven't been mishandled before they got to you. You have to use both methods at the same time to keep the dog(s) on a even keel. Once dominance is achieved, trust is established by kindness and being gentle with him. After that, they will love you to death and God help the poor dummy who shouldn't be in there with 'em.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: mickey]
      #12813 - 30/03/04 10:01 PM

Yes we have to be the alpha dog. I've been challenged by two dogs and they got smashed for their trouble, it seems a bit harsh but it has to be done. Nobody but yourself handles your dog but the dogs should have a certain ammount of "kennel manners", to allow the other handlers in to clean the kennel. All dogs are different, to alot of dogs the attack work is just a big game and they get to bite someone, to some its fair dinkum, some dogs (I've known 2) are just pure evil and they want to kill the person.

My dog was owned by an old lady and he was very protective of her and hated men. Since I got him and he's bonded with me beautifully. He won't let anybody within 5 meters or so of me, unless I give him the stay command. When on the arm unlike other dogs, he's not interested in the arm, he wants the person. If you are doing on lead attack work and you let go of the arm, alot of dogs shake and kill the arm like it was a small animal. Cassius will spit the arm out and go for the intruder He hasn't flown me and I don't think he will. But I'm always ready.

One handler I know had a dog that hated him but they had a working relationship. Gill had been challenged numerous times and one night he was sitting on a stair when the dog came up behind him and growled in his ear. Gill calmly reached into his top pocket for a smartie, he kept for just this occasion, and flip it over his shoulder. The dog went for the smartie and Gill got to his feet and "corrected him"

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nitro476
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Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: The top of the food chain in North America [Re: NitroX]
      #35519 - 06/08/05 11:08 PM

Please don't leave out the US politician as they are among the most predatory of all animals!!

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