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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo???
      #98402 - 05/03/08 12:16 PM

Anybody have any experience with this .308 ammo?

Looks like merely a thin-skinned HP designed to blow up fast. RWS intends it for dog handlers.

It is, apparently, loaded in .308 only and they do not make the bullet type in any other caliber either.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98411 - 05/03/08 03:27 PM

I Googled "Fangschuss-Geschoss" and came up with what you were referring to. It looks like a 125 grain deep hollow point gilding metal jacketed bullet. I have never used anything like that on deer, but I did shoot a couple last year with my .308 using 130 grain SP bullets I normally use for target shooting at 200 yards, and they killed quite satisfactorily, even though I am satisfied that they would be classified as varmint bullets by their manufacturer.

The second buck was shot through the shoulders, breaking both of them and trashing the lungs, but he made it about 100 yards on his hind legs alone, a truly amazing performance. The first one moved just as I shot and was hit a little far back, but made it only about 150 yards. I wouldn't hesitate to use that load again. No exit wound on either one, and very little blood, which would be one drawback.

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
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Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: xausa]
      #98424 - 05/03/08 06:35 PM

Here is a pic:



I have never completely understood this concept (neither did RWS I guess - they only offer this bullet in .308Win, while most of "coupe de grace" rifles for bigger game here are in 8x57 or 9,3x62) - finishing shot is mainly delivered in a thickest bush one can imagine - would you take it with FS? Risk of hitting an obsticle on the way and spray those shrapnels in the quarry and dog's direction is just to high in my book.

P.S. Imagine shooting pissed off wounded bear (30 m away from you quartering) on his shoulder or on hip when it faces away with that

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: 93mouse]
      #98425 - 05/03/08 06:46 PM

Quote:

Here is a pic:



I have never completely understood this concept (neither did RWS I guess - they only offer this bullet in .308Win, while most of "coupe de grace" rifles for bigger game here are in 8x57 or 9,3x62) - finishing shot is mainly delivered in a thickest bush one can imagine - would you take it with FS? Risk of hitting an obsticle on the way and spray those shrapnels in the quarry and dog's direction is just to high in my book.



93: This is exactly what I was wondering. In understand the concern for a bullet that does not overpenetrate but the whole concept seems misdirected here. And strange that if they really think this is valid, I would expect other calibers to be loaded likewise.

Xausa: The bullet they describe looks just like the 130 Speer. I used that one on piles of groundhogs when I lived in Kentucky.

I wonder if the bullet is actually merely a target bullet they have decided to double-market...?

Anybody here use this bullet for its intended purpose?

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98434 - 06/03/08 12:51 AM

9ThreeXFifty7,

Actually what I was using is the Hornady 130 grain SP. Previously I had been using the 125 grain Sierra Game King, but I was able to buy several thousand Hornady blemished bullets for a really favorable price, so I changed to them, with no sacrifice in accuracy. Both are advertised as hunting bullets as opposed to varmint bullets, but until I actually tried them, I had my doubts.

I used to get some funny looks on the rifle range, shooting SP bullets instead of the traditional HP's, but there is no rule against it. I use 168 gr. Sierra MK's at 300 yards and 175 grain Berger VLD's at 600 and beyond.

Whereabouts in KY did you live? My house is about two miles from the KY state line in NW West Tennessee. Very few ground hogs here, compared with where I used to live in Middle Tennessee. My array of varmint rifles: .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .219 Improved Zipper, .222 Remington, .220 Swift, .240 Cobra, .240 PSP, 6mm/.225, 6mm Imp. Krag, .250 Savage, .25-'06, .25 Improved Krag are all gathering dust.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: xausa]
      #98439 - 06/03/08 01:32 AM

Xausa:

I lived just south of Lexington in horse country there attending theological Seminary. LOTS of groundhogs in the area, but normally shooting was discouraged on horse farms for obvious reasons, the main one being a slipup around a $250,000 yearling would be disastrous. I did work on one farm where I did shoot a bunch of them, but we only had three broodmares and knew where they were at all times.

Around here, the concept of a special hound hunting rifle/bullet is popular, but the most common "special rifles" are the Marlin and Winchester .444's. Most bear hunters around here prefer anyone hunting with them to use a caliber/bullet that has a good chance of staying inside the bear. The use of a pack is a lot different than a single tracking dog, and fights occur frequently and if the hunter is present the hound owners want the bullet to stay inside the bear and not exit where it might injure or kill a dog. I do not own such a rifle and have never been turned away from a hunt, but some hound hunters are pretty adamant about it.

So when I saw this bullet I was curious. But look at it...a light .30 cal HP? Seems really weird to me. I won't say these bullets don't have a following somewhere and really, I hope they do as I'd like to hear some reports on their use, but I certainly wouldn't use it on bear here. A quick-opening but heavy 9.3 bullet might have some utility, but the light .30 seems to have gone way too far the other way, to me.

The only right way to do it is to pick a clear shot as best as possible. This can be VERY difficult at times during a fight and I can see why a fast-opening bullet might be desireable, but frankly, the whole notion that a guy is going to RELY on the body of a bear to stop a bullet, and then take that shot where there may be dogs on the other side and in line with the gun is irresponsible to me.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98442 - 06/03/08 02:39 AM

Quote:

LOTS of groundhogs in the area, but normally shooting was discouraged on horse farms for obvious reasons, the main one being a slipup around a $250,000 yearling would be disastrous. I did work on one farm where I did shoot a bunch of them, but we only had three broodmares and knew where they were at all times.



A farmer-friend called me two years ago and asked me to eradicate groundhogs from his pastures and hay fields. He had previously broken an axel on his bailing machine, and on the day he called me he had just destroyed a horse. Both were related to groundhog holes.

That first year I lost count of the number of groundhogs I killed, and started counting them in bushels. They were all very small. Last year I only killed about one third as many, and they were all large. The first year I was able to stalk to within 50 yards and wait; the ground hog would come back out of its hole, and seemed to know I was there but wasn't convinced of the danger. The second year I had to take somewhat longer shots.

There were horses and cattle present at all times, but the owner knew me to be a careful hunter and a good shot. The greater danger was from the groundhogs. The gun was a Ruger #1 in 223 Rem.

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9.3x57
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Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: Tatume]
      #98457 - 06/03/08 05:24 AM

Quote:

Both were related to groundhog holes.



Indeed!

That is no baloney.

On the farms where the rifle is discouraged, it is replaced by the lowly shovel that is put to work filling holes. Elsewhere both are used. In fact, we used a waterwagon to swamp holes, shooting the soggy groundhogs with a revolver when they crawled out to escape the water. And also used flex-pipe shoved over a pickup exhaust pipe, the other end being shoved down into a chuck hole. Escaping smoke identified the connected holes and then all but one of those were then plugged and th rig left running for "awhile" {technical term}.

As for the "finishing shot" concept, some fellows I know carry a download or cast bullet load for their rifle in their pocket, or a pistol to finish off a squirming critter. I rarely have a handgun with me when I have a rifle along but I do frequently have grouse loads that would suffice for such a purpose, but I can't remember ever actually using such a load for a coup de grace. A regular high power load to the back of the neck has been it if necessary, but that is uncommon.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 734
Loc: Slovenia
Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98466 - 06/03/08 07:42 AM

57 - I carry H&K USP compact in .45 ACP with me on every tracking and try to deliver coupe de grace with it if possible - it also comes at hand when crawling after wounded boars in a thick stuff (no way you can cary a rifle in hand at that moment) - neck shots are preferable as you said. Mainly I use 230gr FMJ for finisher (I do carry a spare mag with 180gr JHP for a defence boar scenario).

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5505
Loc: United States
Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: 93mouse]
      #98479 - 06/03/08 09:12 AM

Quote:

57 - I carry H&K USP compact in .45 ACP



Interesting. The FMJ load seems appropriate, too. Little meat damage. I use service pistol FMJ's in a variety of calibers for stock shooting here and used to use the .45 alot for that purpose on many head of butcher sheep. Have three more to put in the freezer as soon as I recover from the flu.

Handguns no problem to own and carry in Slovenia?

We have very easy laws regarding handguns and can own, use and carry them in the field or on the street here in Idaho with a mere permit that is easy to get. I also have a permit for Washington state and these permits are recognised by many states adjoining and beyond the Pacific Northwest.

To be honest, I never even thought about you having a pistol as it seems most European countries have very strict handgun laws.

Tell us more...

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 734
Loc: Slovenia
Re: RWS "FINISHING SHOT" Ammo??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98481 - 06/03/08 09:42 AM

We have different permits here: for hunting, for possesion, to carry, collecting...so in my case I have an arms permit for hunting, that means I can't carry arms outside hunting ground unless for transporting them - they must be empty (ammo separated) and in the gun case - it aplies on transporting it with car as well...same goes for handguns. To get a hunting arms permit you must be 18+ without criminal record, you have to be a member of local hunting association and pass an medical exam . There is no limitation on number of arms - however if you posses more than 6 pieces you must submit the way they are stored and what security measures you have taken...before you buy a rifle you must put an request (fill a form and pay a fee ~35€) - you get the permission in a week or so then you head for the shop and get the rifle - back to the office so the numbers are verified and entered in a permit (it is a small booklet - similar to passport). Everytime you buy ammo you have to present the permit to the salesman - he/she has a special book where he writes down who bought what and how much of it. Sounds complicated but it isn't that bad. However you must be a good boy - if you are stoped driving with arms in your car by police and they test you with alcotest and you don't pass (0,0) bye bye guns - same goes if you get a bit horny and just mention you are about to do some nasty things to someone - if someone report it to police you are accused of being unbalanced...

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